I Protest with Donalde Jeffries - Dr. Shiva: From Inventing Email to Exposing the Swarm — Building Bottoms‑Up Power

0:00 And welcome to iProtest. This is Donald Jeffries coming to you from just outside the swamp and fest of Washington, D.C., as we do every Friday at this time. I have a very special guest today, Dr. Shiva Ayyadurai is the inventor of email, scientist, entrepreneur, Fulbright scholar, holds four degrees from MIT, including his Ph.D. in biological engineering, started seven successful high-tech companies, providing thousands of jobs in Massachusetts. His life has been about solving very tough problems by identifying the root cause, bringing together people to innovate real solutions. Now he wants to serve America beyond left and right to deliver solutions we need and deserve. Most importantly, Dr. Shiva is one of us, not another lawyer or lobbyist or politician. Dr. Shiva, honored to have you on the show, sir.

0:49 Great to be here. Thanks, Don. I read your biography. It's inspirational. You call them untouchables in your country. Some of us call them peasants, riffraff, wretched refuse. That's the way they look at, unfortunately, most of the world's population. It's great. There's not much upward mobility here or in any of the countries. So it's wonderful you've risen to where you have. But what made you I tell people in my background, in terms of I was always a radical thinker. From the time I was a teenager in the mid-70s, I was helping Mark Lane in the JFK assassination as a volunteer because I was going down that rabbit hole then. So I always looked at things differently.

1:33 I didn't have an epiphany. Were you a normie, or did you have an epiphany at one point, or did you always question things? How did you get to the point where you got these toes in the conspiratorial waters? Well, Don, I think everyone has a journey in their life. And at some point, you're presented with an option. Either you take personal responsibility for your own life and your own future, or you outsource that responsibility to somebody else. And I think that's really the... It's not left versus right. It's not black versus white. Those are not really the fundamental questions and not really the fundamental things. I think when you look at the world, it's those people who decide, in spite of whatever conditions they grow up in, they have some set of circumstances that... And I'm not sure exactly the dynamic of why this occurs, but there's a set of people who take responsibility for their own future, in spite of anything. And then other people sort of succumb to the way things are. So in my situation, having grown up in a... I mean, I've been here since... Jesus, 55 years in the United States. I'm 62. I grew up in India for the formative periods of my life, until I was seven. But in that world of India, it was quite a diverse world because you grew up in a culture where... Within India, a world within world where I had... I grew up in a small village in the summer times, a third of my life. And then

3:05 in a city called Bombay, two very different extremes. It's like going from deep, let's say, backwaters, Mississippi, all the way to Manhattan, that kind of environment. And then in a world where there was extremes in wealth, and the fact that there was a caste system in India, your basis in your existence was sort of the birth lord who was determined what caste you were born into, and all the prejudices that went along with that. And having been exposed to that, my goal was to figure out why was I being treated very differently as a five-year-old kid, four-year-old kid? And that led to my interest in politics. Now, I could have easily gone a different direction, you see? But I didn't. And then I grew up in a world where I experienced different systems of way people approached the way they saw the world. My grandmother looked at the world from a traditional medicine point of view. She was the village shaman. She was a healer. I mean, wild stuff that you would call something out of National Geographic, some indigenous people, a culture. And then, so I was exposed to these worlds of contradictions in the societal world, health care, and that's really what drove me. But I think the decision I made, I was like, why is the world like that? And I wanted to understand it, you see? And I wanted to really peel away the layers to discover it. And so when my parents came to the United States, it was really deeply ingrained that this was a huge

4:37 opportunity, you see? Because the immigrants, many of the immigrants, even up until the 70s, who came to the United States, they were leaving their country, and they were taking this voyage in many ways to the unknown. Very adventurous people, my parents were. I mean, they actually had jobs in India. You know, they didn't have to leave. They could have just been comfortable. So, and that's what America was built on in many ways. In retrospect, it was built on this environment of if you had personal responsibility, or if you didn't, you could go as high as you wanted, or you could end up in the gutter, you know? It gave this infinite sense that in other countries, there's some tolerance, you know, on both extremes. But in the United States, there was that sense, right? So I was ingrained the fortune that we had coming here, ingrained into such a level that you better make something of yourself, you see what I'm saying?

5:32 So that put me on a path to, in some ways, a lot of personal responsibility. By the time I was 14, I was going to New York University in a computer science program, and I was mowing lawns. I used to make my own money. I've been working literally since I was 13 years old, you know? I had a full time job when I was 14 while finishing up high school as a scientist, as a research fellow. So that's the trajectory I went on, and all of this was done outside of any type of ordained institutions, you see? It came from within. The cooperation of my family, you know, mentors. So that created me. So here at the age of 14, I create email. Before I came to MIT, in a small medical college, right? Through sheer hard work, a discipline focus, you know, and an environment in a small medical college. Email was not done by the military industrial complex. It was done in a small medical college by a 14-year-old Indian American kid.

6:35 And that is a very important story because it shows that what an individual can do, if they take that path of personal responsibility and have a community, a collective community of other people who support that. You know, in that medical college, people were 30, 40 years older than me. They treated me as an equal, and they gave me this environment where I could prosper. So it was pretty clear to me that an individual could do incredible things. If they took, had a vision of what they wanted to go, a goal, you know, and I was taught to meditate when I was a very, very young kid, the concept of visualizing something and creating some type of order for yourself in the midst of a lot of chaos that I grew up in and to achieve things. So to me, that, whatever that framework that I learned has compelled me to, you know, really have this discussion with you. So when I went to MIT, I didn't even know about MIT until two weeks before I applied. Okay. It wasn't like I was wanting to go to MIT. Many people go to MIT, like, I want to go there. I didn't even know about it until two weeks. Got in very fortuitously, came to visit MIT. And I mentioned this many, many times, but it's important to mention this.

7:51 I had no interest in coming here to Boston. I found these people, the very uni-dimensional, they look crazy. These nerds who look 80 years old walking around there, but it didn't feel right. It seemed like a very unhealthy institution. I did decide to come here because one of my teachers said, you like Boston, it's a city. It wasn't like the town that I grew up. And so that, and then if you look at my trajectory from 1981 till today, there were two paths. One was the political path of understanding of systems of governance, systems of injustice work. I mean, I created a newspaper at MIT, led many, many protests or, I mean, nothing has really changed. You can talk to friends of mine and they'll say, Shiva's still the same. Shiva, we knew, you know, his analysis of politics beyond left and right, exposing Zionism. It really hasn't changed. By the way, Thomas Massey went to MIT. I never saw him come to an anti-Zionist protest.

8:47 Okay. This is a new thing he suddenly got into. Okay. So it wasn't something in vogue that I did, John, just as an aside. And then when it came to science and medicine, very deeply interested in understanding how you actually heal people and understanding the body as a system. That too, never changed. Today that resulted in the development of cytosol and system cell, clean food certified, all these global solutions. So my point is, you know, when I decided to, and by the way, I never, I've always told people that the, if you just run for politics, like the electoral system, oh, I want to be a Senator. I want to be, that's a very, very vain or useless goal. But if you recognize that, if you want to build a bottom step movement, when you really do the analysis of what actually changes the world, it ultimately comes down to individuals who take personal responsibility and those group of individuals getting together collectively. And that collective movement of individuals who themselves know that they have to have personal responsibility is what actually is a movement. A movement cannot be someone saying, oh, join my movement, you follow me. You see, that's not a movement. That is what we today call grifters and social media influencers, followers. So when, you know, we launched

10:20 Truth Freedom Help, which is our movement, we educated people on precisely what I'm educating you now on Don, which is, or sharing with you, this idea of there is a science to actualizing your personal responsibility or to understanding the universe, you're the same, and that's system science. And so that's the journey that really got me here. Why I decided to do that, I'm not sure, but I was compelled to do that. And if you look at Massachusetts as a microcosm, 65% of Massachusetts are independents. In the last two years, you know, the Democrats were 35%. Now they've dropped to 28. The Republicans, which are a useless organization in Massachusetts, were 10. Now they're six. So in a state, and by the way, in a country of independence, and I did a talk on this yesterday, so you have most people intuitively moving away from these corporate parties, but they are still brainwashed to thinking you have to vote for these individual parties. Well, I was going to say that's because isn't that an inherent contradiction there? Because Massachusetts has some of the worst war. You ran against Elizabeth Warren, and by the way, it takes a real Indian to beat a fake Indian. That's one of the great campaign slogans. You should have won on that alone. And now you're running inside, right? I mean, these are clear politicians. So let's talk about that. I mean, I did a, you know, every Thursdays, to let everyone who's listening know, every Thursdays,

11:52 you can go to truthfreedomhealth.com. We do an open house. We do it at 11. And then we do it again also at 8pm. And it's an opportunity for people to, you know, interact and meet other people so they don't feel lonely, like there's no one else out there wanting to change things. But fundamentally, what you realize is, so if, and just take Massachusetts as, and by the way, this is true everywhere, but if you take Massachusetts as the test case, okay. So here you have a state, 65% of the voters here are independents, unenrolled. That's what the official, they don't believe in either party. And the growth of independence has been escalating.

12:35 Those under 25, 96% are independents now. Okay, so basically, you have people decided they don't like these parties. But yet, every year, they're compelled to go vote for those parties. Now, how does that occur, Don? How so it's literally like, you have a birdcage, a bird, a canary's in there. A canary's in there, the birdcage is open, and the bird is unwilling to go out for its own freedom. Now, the only way that could occur, if you just think about it, it's a great thing to understand why. And that's what I did this talk yesterday on. It's occurring because it's actually behaviorally being engineered. And it's a larger context of what's going on in the United States. The United States has all these freedoms, the Bill of Rights. So the swarm, as I call it, people go to shatter the swarm.com to understand what that means. But I don't view the swarm as any one group. It's a much more of a decentralized organization of the establishment. It's a much more precise way of looking at it. But those in power were forced, because of the history of America to give these Bill of Rights. Independence, okay. But they didn't like to do they didn't really want to do that. So if you've given the Bill of Rights, how do you control people?

14:00 Well, you have to mentally control them. This has to be engineered. And as a, in a biological engineer and a systems biologist, I can tell you there's three types of intelligence humans have. One is a very low form of intelligence, the lowest sort of base intelligence, which is a primal instinctive piece, right? Which, you know, you can tell people that person's black, you should hate them, right? Well, that person's like this, right? It's like sort of the animal instinct you can bring up in people in all the seven deadly sins reside there. The next type of intelligence is a more intellectual kind, right? Where people can think rationally, oh, two plus two is four, right? It's logic, right? That comes into, you know, solving a math problem or writing a brief for a legal case. And then the highest form of intelligence is wisdom, intuition.

14:50 So what the swarm, the elites have done is they have wanted to make sure the vast majority of people, even though they have the Bill of Rights in the United States, operate at that primal instinctive level, out of fear, out of reaction. And in order to do that, you have to behaviorally engineer that. So when people are not compelled by all the stuff over time, they're like, shit, I don't want to be a Democrat or Republican. I want to be independent. So they're moving away. So there's something inside them that compels them to do that. But when they- But do you think, I mean, because you're exactly right. I think most people are independent, but doesn't that, and I know you were involved in the questioning the 2020 election, as a lot of us were. So I'm wondering at this point, don't you feel that the process itself is rigged no matter what the people think? Because I mean, if 65% of Massachusetts, maybe they just don't vote.

15:47 But I mean, if more, if these people are independent, then they should attract, be attracted to someone like you, or certainly, they should be turned off by people like Elizabeth Warren or Mark. It's like people in South Carolina, how do they keep reelecting Lindsey Graham? How do they defeat Thomas Messi? Yeah, let me tell you how they're doing it. Okay. So just follow this with me, because it's, I mean, I've thought about this for many, many, you know, years, and I was able to articulate it only recently, you know, package it into a way that people can really understand it. A lot of what we do in our movement for Truth for Health is to not just make slogans, but to educate people. But if you look at it, if you can follow me with this, Don, that they do need to engineer this. Okay, that's how they keep the bird. So people are going independent, the cage is open, they don't want to leave, they still keep voting for their master. How does that happen? Well, what they do in every two to four election cycle, whoever is running in a state election, in a federal election, presidential election, what do they do? Two parties, they make it all or nothing. If you vote for him, it's the world, the world is going to evaporate, there will be Armageddon, right? Go look at every election. This is the most important election, Reagan versus Mondale. This is the most important election, Clinton versus Trump, this, right? So, and both wings of the media establishment,

17:19 their media, manipulate 300 million people into this environment, I call it the fear factory. This is the most important thing. Oh, wait a minute, there's Don Jeffrey, he's running over, he's a great guy, he's independent. Well, that doesn't matter, we can't talk about that right now, it may be good. This is the most important election. Do you see what I'm saying? And that is brainwashing. So they make people, and they pummel it over and over again. So one is this mechanism, and they have these five ways that they do it. So they hit you with, it's five different, they inject five different things into people's brain. One is this is the most important election. And then they make it about two people, this side and that side, right? This side and that side. And they manufacture this existential crisis in every situation. And they tell you their brand is the best. And if you vote for this guy, the opposition, the entire country will collapse.

18:19 You know what I'm saying? And just go look at every election, right? They do this. They'll do this in 2028, every presidential, even in the Senate race, you must vote for blah, blah, blah. Otherwise, everything's going to go to hell, right? So now they got people, they use things like this is a final battle. So when they are pummeling this to people like, oh, shit, they forget they're independent. There's an independent candidate running. There's an independent movement. Oh, we can't build a movement now. He can't win though. He can't win. That's another one. That's one of the five tactics. I'll get to that. But you see, they have to create this massive dialectic, good versus evil, right? Like some Marvel comics game.

19:05 And they bring people into that. So that's one approach that they take. And the second approach that they do is then to what you were saying, they basically have one candidate, you know, they can point to and say, this candidate is really bad. If he comes in the world, this guy's corrupt. He's a pedophile. Yeah, he embezzled money. He did this. He's your nose. Yeah. Yeah, he's bad, but he's better than this guy. Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don, you're right. That guy's bad, but this guy is really bad. So we better go for him. So what they're doing in that the lesser of two evil strategy, tactic number two. So when they do that, Don, mentally what they're telling people is you can't really be eating like really great food.

19:56 You must be okay eating McDonald's. It's okay. So you're lowering people's standards. So you are viscerally taking people away from their own interests. And you're every time you do that, people are saying, I guess I really don't deserve the best. It's okay if I have a criminal and a pedophile or in the other case, someone who, you know, embezzled money over here because they're much better than this other guy. Right. So what they do in that process in that brainwashing behaviorally, they're saying, wow, Dr. Shiva is amazing. He's one of us, but I can't have him. I don't deserve him. Right. Like the bird saying, I better just eat the slop in my cage. I don't deserve to go out and free and fly and get what I want. So this is again, socially engineered. It comes from behavioral engineering that BF Skinner developed at Harvard. You know, that all of this is highly, highly engineered.

20:51 Otherwise there's no reason a bird would stay in the cage when he's already declared his freedom to some extent. So that's number two. The third way that they do it is what I call the spoiler, what you just said. Okay. The spoiler narrative. Right. They basically tell people there's no way you can win. Okay. You can't win. They convince people that mathematically you can't win, even though in Massachusetts or in the country, 65% of people are not only the majority, they're the super majority, but they convince people the majority is told you can't win. It's a wasted vote. You ever heard that? Why are you voting for that? Of course. You're wasting your vote.

21:36 I wasted most of my votes, Dr. Shiva. Let me tell you, I voted third party all the time. Right, right. But you as a person who gets this, the other, so 65% are super majority, give you the actual math. So think about it in Massachusetts. Again, you can apply this in every other part of the country. 7% now are Republican, 28% are Democrats. So what's that? 35. Okay. 65% independent. So clearly if the independents voted independent, none of these guys would win. So how do these guys win? If you look at the data in Massachusetts of those 65%, 25% of the 65 or 30% historically go to the Democrats. 30%. So 30, I'm sorry, 40%. Okay.

22:30 35% to be precise. Sorry. 35% of the 65 go to the Democrats, 35 plus 25, they get 60. Okay. The remaining 30 go over to the Democrats, I mean, Republicans. So they have engineered the independents not to be unified for their independence, but to split them. Okay. So this is highly engineered because they keep pummeling that super majority with these things, right? Oh my God, this is the final election. You got to vote for this one, Tweedledee or Tweedledum. There's no way you can win and the lesser of two evils. And there's two other very interesting things that they do in this. So you can't just, it's a multi-combination therapeutic that they're hitting people with. Okay. The media does what's called redlining. Okay. They isolate the independent and they make sure that that person never, never, ever gets any media attention. Even though the person is a bona fide candidate, like in 2018, when I ran against a fake Indian, Elizabeth Warren, we had a massive movement, people, fake Indian, real Indian, people loved it. We'd be driving along, people would stop our bus, want the sign, ran the picture of me and Warren. It was an amazing ad campaign. I mean, it's probably one of the best campaigns in election history. But in order to contain that, they illegally did not allow me on the debate stage because they knew if I got on the debate stage for five minutes, it's over for them, Don. And I don't mean to say this with arrogance, but

24:07 I speak well, I can communicate to every set of people and people see me, they go, shit, that guy's one of us. They cannot allow that. So they create their own culture wars among themselves and then they keep out people with actual solutions. And then the final thing that they do is everything, and this is the fourth tactic, fifth tactic, everything becomes tribal divide and conquer. They make every issue a cultural issue, not an economic issue, you know, a culture one. Oh, you know, they take issues which are cultural issues. Immigration, they have no interest in solving immigration either way. I wrote a book called Deportation Theater. At any point, the Democrats and Republicans, whoever's in power, Obama at most deported 3.7% of the 14 million population. And he was called deporter-in-chief. Trump did 2.8%. So neither wing, so what they do is a billionaire class needs the 14 million illegal immigrants. 40% of Texas construction runs by illegal immigrants. 60% of Florida, hospitality runs by illegal immigrants. Those are two of the biggest red states. Texas, Florida, right, which has half of the billionaires in the United States.

25:28 California has the other half by and large. I'm sorry, quarter of the billionaires, Texas, Florida has the other quarter. All of farming in the United States would end because 80% of the illegal immigrants are used for migrant labor to pick fruits and vegetables. So the billionaire class cannot run without illegal immigrants. That's how they make all their profits. But in order to keep the white working class wages suppressed even further, they always attack the brown people or the yellow people or the black people or even those white people, right, the Irish and the Italians, the immigrants, to lower the wages of the indigenous people, right, and to make sure the whoever is indigenous locally does not unite with the immigrant class. So this is engineered, so they only deport 3%, make it always a central issue. So, you know, the immigration bill isn't passed. This is all being done as theatrics. The statistic you said, and we all knew it, I didn't know the exact numbers, but the fact that Trump has deported a lower rate of people than Obama, how many MAGA people that still support him would believe you if you even told them that? I don't think they'd believe you. Well, that's why, you know, very few people have even analyzed this. I was the first one to really analyze it. And if you understand it as a control system, Don, you know how your thermostat in your home works? You set it at a temperature, you want to keep it balanced, let's say 72 degrees. If it gets too hot, you know, in the

27:03 summertime, a signal goes to your AC and it blows cold air, and then it goes back to maybe 70, and then you let it up, but you're controlling it. So this is what the swarm does with every issue. They take issues to make sure, their goal is to make sure people are divided, the working class in the United States is divided. And in order to divide them, they have to come up with stupid issues. Abortion is always a central issue, transgender, which affects like 3%, immigration, which has no interest in solving. They don't take, let's talk about the crumbling roads and bridges. When was that a central issue? When was the issue? Trump talked about it, he talked about it, but he didn't do anything about it. Right, but it never, there's no massive infrastructure built. No. Right. Why don't we talk about the fact that energy is being highly centralized, energy production, right?

27:58 Why don't we talk about communication centralization? So there are big issues, which are never bought front and center, but they do bring cultural issues. So you go send ICE into Minnesota to fuck up a bunch of people. Minnesota only has 96,000 quote unquote illegal immigrants. Why don't you send them into Florida? Where Ron DeSantis is talking a big game. Why don't you send them into Texas? Right? There's close to 4 million illegal immigrants or 7 million there. So what they do is they create theater, cultural theater, but immigration is a great issue because for the last 30, 40 years, since they've been talking about immigration, every president has at most deported 3.7%. So the billionaire class, which funds these elections must make sure that the working class illegal or non or legal is divided. So what they do is they fund the politician Obama to talk about strong borders. So he talks a bunch of shit, deports a bunch of people. And what that's doing, it scares the illegal immigrant population. So they will lower their wages even further and work in worse conditions. And what that does to the white population is they think they're fighting these guys, but it's used actually to keep their wages lower. They're saying, well, I could pay illegal immigrants $7 an hour. You should be happy. You're getting nine. This is no different than what occurred during pre-colonial times in the United States. It was called Bacon's Rebellion. When the white leaders came here, they had the

29:32 white settlers and the black slaves. At one time, the black slaves and the white settlers got together. It was called Bacon's Rebellions against their master. And in order to make sure that never occurred again, they engineered racism. Racism was created as a weapon. So it's basically white on white crime in the United States. It's the white elites manipulating the poor whites. And what it does is it actually lowers wages. But what I just shared with you, these five ways are how they make sure the bird with the cage open stays in the cage. So the only way out of this is educating people on this process, which is what we're consistently doing, and then offering people an alternative and telling people the only way you're going to get this alternative, in this case, my running for U.S. Senate, cannot occur through the existing infrastructure. It has to be a bottoms-up movement, which means individuals quietly learning the system and then rising up.

30:38 Bottoms-up, individual responsibility. So my run for U.S. Senate is not about when people say, oh, I'm going to help you, Dr. Shiva, collect signatures. I say, look, time out. You're not helping me. I just happen to be a guy who went through my journey, knows my role at this point. This is an opportunity for you to realize that you need to exercise your independence, your responsibility, and say, this is the kind of guy I want. I'm going to go collect signatures for me and my family. So this is a very different consciousness on. So we're not lowering ourselves to go do base shit. We did Real Indian, Fake Indian. It was a great slogan because it interconnected this primal stuff all the way to the intuitive stuff. We're lifting people up.

31:24 It's not about Elizabeth Warren. It's not racist, but reality was she has no integrity. Everything she ever acknowledged your existence, though, or did you pretend you didn't exist? No, they had to acknowledge our existence. We were the one who forced her to take the DNA test. Oh, OK. And they had to sprinkle in Peruvian genes. It was so bad for Elizabeth Warren. We had a huge bus. Big sign, only the Real Indian can defeat the Fake Indian. Picture me and her in the headdress on my property in the building I own in Cambridge. She got the city of Cambridge to file a suit against me saying you must remove that banner off your bus.

32:06 We sued them back and we won in federal court. OK, so the point is that my candidacy, my existence is very valuable for working people because I didn't I have never compromised to the swarm ever. And in spite of that. I made these achievements now that reality, Don, must be shadow banned. It cannot reach the public. So during 2020, you know, we got like three million followers after that. They said, holy shit, this guy is not in the left to right camp. How the fuck did we let him get so much views and clicks? We have to contain him. And the reason they have to contain me is I'm uncompromised, right? I'm not in one of these camps. And in spite of all the shit that occurs to people, I was able to make it through that.

32:58 That story cannot come out, Don, because then it becomes very inspiring to people. Shit, how did a fucking 14 year old kid invent email? How did he know which form to fill out? How did he write? So people start thinking I, too, can do that. Right. There's something very powerful in the in in the essence of being human that you can't overcome these things. So how does and it is inspirational, but how do you how does Zionism factor into all this, because what we what I'm most impressed with today is, I mean, I've been I've been at this, I've been on these rabbit holes for a long, long time. And something like Zog, the term Zog, I remember that that was in the 80s. You couldn't utter that in polite society. Now, Candace Owens is saying, you know, to millions of people, everybody that land the left and the right is coming together, especially the left, oddly, you know, or correct anything else. And they're noticing the power and the influence of Zionism. So how, how do you stand there? I mean, I'm assuming you're obviously against the war with Iran. But do you see the Zionist influence?

34:03 First of all, Candace Owens, Thomas Massey, we have to be very, this is a very important part of this conversation. These people are opportunists. Okay, and I want to really sort of unravel this. So you have the existing wings of the establishment, right? In the US, it's Democrat or Republican. In the UK, it's the Conservatives and Labour. In India, it's BJP and Congress, whatever, you have these two wings. These wings of the establishment, as we just shared, work together, right? Anything that they do acting against each other is to keep the masses in the cage, even though the gate is open. All right, so I hope that's clear. The other backup, like the backup generator you have, in case the power goes down, is the opportunists. So the establishment creates opportunists, opportunism, where they create a stable of people who will talk boldly about the oppression of the masses. Okay, at some point, in some issue. But their goal is not to free the masses, Don, it's to keep people saying, I will take care of this.

35:13 And to always to bring people back into this form. I'll give you an example, Bernie Sanders, right? He's the not so obvious establishment, NSOE, not so obvious establishment. He was created by the Democrat establishment to keep people connected, right? Or AOC. Same you have on the right, Thomas Massey, Rand Paul, all those guys. They are not telling people, you must build a bottoms up movement. What they do is they'll take an issue, and they'll never come in when it's really a real issue when you can actually help people at the right time. They wait. Delayed truth. Tucker Carlson, as I call him, Tucker Carlson, another CIA agent who's part of this, and that's what he is. So what's happened with social media is a swarm has created their anointed, quote unquote, influencers, who act like they're saying some stuff, but those same people never were silent when the actual issues are going on when you could have impact. I'll give you an example, okay? Well, Zionism has been, you know, really started in the mid 40s, right? And you can go back to the late 1800s, okay? Zionism is a...

36:29 Bible, sure. Christian evangelicals. Right. Now, when I, in 1981, 1982, I organized one of the biggest protests at MIT, when Meir Kahane, you may know that guy, came to Brandeis, okay? So what, for me, Zionism was very, very important, because I grew up in Jersey, where I had a lot of Jewish friends, right? And I grew up in a working class town in New Jersey called Persephone, where it's working class Jews. And when I moved to Livingston, these were all bougie Jews, who were much more Zionist. They would go to Israel one summer, and they come back wanting to kill every Arab, okay? Or Palestinian. So I could distinguish between Zionism and Judaism. You know, Judaism being more of an ethnic, you know, connection, and Zionism, this political ideology, which is like the Indian caste system, which said, we are better than everyone else, and therefore we deserve to treat everyone like shit.

37:28 The chosen people concept. No different than Nazism. No different than Brahmanism. So I've been educating, fighting this since 1981. Now, Thomas Massey went to MIT. He wasn't smart enough to figure out Zionism back then. I never saw him talking about this. But he does talk about it after the butchering in Gaza takes place. Okay? He's been in Congress for 15 years. Did he suddenly just have an awakening? Okay? And there was a video that I did long before people even used the word Zionist. It got two, three million views. I said, I'm the only candidate who is not a Zionist cocksucker. Now, it came out very fluidly, Don. I wasn't even thinking about it.

38:13 And you will see, you can look at that video. And right after that, you can see all these social media influencers saying, this is a topic I should also talk about. Because what the social media influencers are doing, they watch the win. That's what opportunists do. This is classic political opportunism. And nowadays, you can do it even better. So you as an opportunist politician are looking for issues to jump on. Suddenly, Bernie Sanders is talking about AI, right? The guy doesn't know anything about AI, right? Thomas Massey talks about Epstein and Zionism. By the way, he doesn't say it. Okay? Tucker Carlson plays, oh, I still support Israel.

38:55 I love the people there. Because if you look at the history of Tucker Carlson's life, he always wanted to get views and clicks. First, he was at liberal CNN. Because it was in vogue when CNN first came out. Then he went to Fox. Just I want to disclaimer here, because I have to be upfront. Tucker Carlson, I've said lots of good things about him. And Tucker Carlson, mainly because he sells a couple of my books in his bookstore, which I was shocked to hear. Are you willing to concede in his case, though, that people can, you know, evolve? I mean, you had Saul. He became St. Paul on the road to Damascus. Is it possible to evolve like that?

39:39 I don't believe that's what Tucker Carlson is doing. And this is what they take good people like you. And let's really look at his look. I know him personally. Okay. In 2020. Here we are in Massachusetts, where in the Republican primary, September 2020. We knew we wanted and we see the results coming in. And in Franklin County, Massachusetts, this is like on the ground. This is not like, oh, Tucker saying some good stuff. So I'm telling you, the reality of my experience and others experienced with him. Here's a guy wears a bow tie. Father is in the CIA, wanted to be in the CIA. There's a very good journals and unheard of wrote a great article. Everything Tucker Carlson talked about it, I need to be famous, to be influential. It didn't matter what you talk about. It's the goal is to be famous. Fame itself is a asset. And a lot of everyday people don't get it. They want to establish a brand equity. And that brand is like building a home or building a company that is an asset value. Tucker Carlson doesn't give a fuck about the Palestinian people. He doesn't give a fuck about anything except himself. So in 2020, when we knew we won the election, I went into the Secretary of State and I said, where are the ballot images? Because about every time a ballot goes into a voting machine, it creates an image. I wanted all the ballot images so we could assess that I actually

41:11 lose the race. 2020. So we go into the Secretary of State's office. We have a video camera. They said we deleted the ballot images. In fact, they didn't even put the preservation feature on which is mandated by 52 USC 20701, which is a law. Okay. So right after that, Don, on Twitter, I said, the Secretary of State of Massachusetts deleted 1.7 million ballot images. That starts going viral. 100,000, you know, retweets all of these. You can find it. I'm thrown off Twitter. In the middle of my Senate race, we go then file a lawsuit because, and we find out, the government of Massachusetts contacted Twitter to throw me off. Let me repeat that again.

42:01 The government contacted Twitter to throw off a US Senate federal candidate. And we found that during cross-examination, no lawyer wanted to take on this federal lawsuit. I had to learn the law, and what we uncovered was that there's a backdoor portal between the government, a censorship complex, and social media companies. I discovered that. Not Mike Benz, not Fokker Carlson, not the Twitter files. And if you go to winbackfreedom.com, I send a personal email to Fokker and Glenn Greenwald, who I know through Noam Chomsky. Did they do anything? Nothing. So, we go into court the second time, and you'll see it. The judge gives me the win. He gives me an injunction. Fokker Carlson, this is the most compelling case of US history. The government is using technology to suppress US citizens. In fact, what we also discovered was this entire infrastructure, there was a manual. It was what you would call the Twitter files, but we discovered it. And we found out that the government of Massachusetts didn't do jack shit. He didn't do jack shit. Why? Because I'm not Republican or Democrat, and limelight would have come to me. And everyone needs to listen to this, because many people who have not been in Hollywood, who don't know these famous people, it's hard for you guys to understand. These people claw and pick to get views and clicks.

43:28 That's all they're out for, views and clicks, not the issue. So, if one day you're supporting anti-abortion, you'll do that. Another day, if it's invoked to be anti-Zionist, you'll do that. It's hard for you to understand that. And Fokker Carlson will put on his faces, acting like he's really concerned. What, he suddenly came across this epiphany? He didn't know this was all the information he has access to? Bullshit. And you have to be like that bird in that cage, thinking, oh, Tucker became, don't take this personally, Don, from Paul to Saul, or Saul to Paul, whatever, right? Right. True. Okay. And if you are truly an anathema to the establishment, you will be choked and throttled on social media. He's not. Same with Candace Owens.

44:19 And you can also look at it on the other side. So, they create the dialectic. So, these people are created, promoted. And the actual people, if they're independent, like myself, even though during 2020, explosive views. And they realize, wait a minute. And, you know, I've had, Trump invited me to Mar-a-Lago to meet with him. And he thought I would come under the Republican fold. I didn't. Right? So, I can go, I have been. So, did you get to meet Trump? Not only did I get to meet Trump, they wanted to offer me a position in the government. Do you understand that 2020, I was the one who ran the Fire Fauci campaign. I was the one who exposed the backdoor portal to Twitter. I was the one who did the fundamental work on election integrity. Trump invited me to Mar-a-Lago, after he had endorsed a guy in Massachusetts who did election fraud. And I, and I have all the emails. I respectfully refused.

45:15 And I respectfully refused. 99% of people say, oh my Donald Trump, let me go suck his balls off. Okay. Sorry to be that lewd about it. But I refused because I'm principled. Then I was down in Florida visiting a friend of mine who's a big Trumper. He goes, oh, Shiva, you're too, you know, critical. You know, Trump could have changed. Right? He could be, anyway. So, to satisfy my friend, I went to visit Trump. Two hour meeting. Dude, the first part of the meeting was small room. Trump looked like an old washed up actor. Didn't look like who he looks like. And he was praising me, thanking me. You're amazing. My uncle went to MIT. You know, I had to endorse that guy, all this bullshit. Anyway, then he said, what do you want from me?

45:58 At least 20 times. He thought I'd come there to get something, which is what 99% of people do, Don. I said, look, I really care about these issues and nothing's being done about it. That was really the conversation. And then he would take sound bites of some of my conversation, which he later used, and Susie Wiles would go in and out of that room. So, two weeks later, I said, yeah, I do want to talk to you about something, about creating an institution that would really approach election integrity, a bipartisan institute. He didn't want to give one penny. Yet, Don, he abused most of my information to raise about a half a billion. So, my point is, I can see fucker Carlson there. So, people really have to get their head out of their ass and stop going to these bandwagons, because that is how opportunism works. Oh, he's saying something so good now. Wow, Bernie is so good. A lot of young people follow Bernie.

46:54 Well, yeah, but let me ask you this, though, because I'm getting a lot of comments in the chat that exist. If you understand, it's systems processed, Don. The processes, the establishment is very clever. The end goal is to make sure people do not build independent movements. And that central concept, again, let me repeat, the goal is to make sure people don't take personal responsibility and build independent movements. So, in order to make sure that is not done, they have a farm league and people that they keep promoting. Tulsi Gabbard is a fucking warmonger. She is not a candidate for peace. She supported the bombing of Gaza. You can go down the list. Yet, they take people who are obviously on the other side, but manipulate people to make sure that they've gone through Saul versus Paul conversion. It's absolutely the ultimate manipulation of opportunism. I understand what you're saying. I agree with you on a lot of them, but what do you say to people who say how, because most people are followers. You know, human beings are followers. They need somebody to lead. And why I believe that, but who would you say? And I agree with you a lot. I mean, Candace Owens, I watched her show a lot. Her interview with Hunter Biden was embarrassing. And I don't know how she has any followers left after that, but who would you say is not, you know, controlled or it's not, who do you think is genuine? Is there anyone, political or alt media? Who? Yeah, let's just, so let me just,

48:24 before I answer that question, I want to ask you a question. Okay. That question itself, who do you think is not controlled? You say that question itself, there's a subtext to that question. The subtext to that question is as though we have to follow somebody. And this is also compelled by saying, who do you think Dr. Sheen is so critical? Who do you think, are you so high in mind? You see, that is part of the establishment's manipulation to make it think as though we have to follow somebody. Here's the reality. I could point to people like Malcolm X, right? I could point to, but ultimately, the history that has been wiped out goes counter to what you just said that everyone just wants to follow. It's not true. The history of actual change, massive change, the creation of the United States, the movements of the 1800s. If anyone in your If anyone in your audience is listening, if you have the eight-hour workday today, if you have basic rights today, if you have roads and highways and plumbing systems and hygiene, where did those come from? They did not come from the Bernie Sanders or the Thomas Masseys or the fucker Carlsons of the times. They came from mass movements. And 90%, 99% of the history has been wiped out. In the late 1800s, 1886, was the great upheaval in the

49:56 United States. And during the great upheaval and up to the late, early 1900s, masses of working people in the United States, independently, decentralized, rose up. Okay? No Democrat, no Republican, no fucker Carlson, none of these people. And in 1886, four American workers were hanged in the United States for fighting for the eight-hour workday by the government of the United States. And that in commemoration of that group of workers, the world working class called it International Workers Day, May Day. May Day was started in commemoration of the American workers who rose bottoms up. Reagan changed it to Law Day. So think about this.

50:45 Now, why is this important? Because it shows that the United States has a history of the American working class rising bottoms up to fight for their rights, independently of someone being, following somebody. And in the early 1900s, this came when the stock market crash took place. I have seen pictures of at least a million people in Times Square, Blacks and white, arm and arm, massive protests. All of that has been wiped out of American history. And it was those compelling movements that forced Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the New Deal. So they threw bones to the masses. We'll give you social security. Okay, fine. We'll build bridges and roads and highways. Fine. We'll build plumbing. And it was those movements and the wins of those, some of the reforms that by 1963, measles was wiped out. You didn't need the vaccine. It was because of hygiene and public infrastructure. But that infrastructure came from bottoms up movements. Now, what I just shared with you, no one talks about quote unquote influencers. No one talks about this fact that the American working class led the global workers movement of the world. And by 1950, the McCarthy era began. They branded all of these movements as communist, run by Russia, the Red Scare. Americans were hanged in the United States, executed.

52:10 So they scared people. And out of that McCarthy era by the 70s arose these two huge parties. The Democrats were anointed to be the party of the working class. The Republicans were anointed to be the party of the bourgeois. And they split the working class. Now, if you want to look at the actual data between 1900 to 1970, and you can look it up, there's a RAND report, the wages of the American workers, all income quartiles, the poorest and the richest, everything grew. The GDP grew, everyone's wages grew, because there were mass movements on the ground. Close to 11,000 strikes took place in the United States, 250 million people.

52:53 I'll repeat that, 11,000 strikes, 250 million people. The guys coming back from World War II didn't take any shit. There was no social media influencers. There was no fucker Carlson building those movements. It was bottoms up. After 1970, after the hijacking of the actual political system took place to today, the number of the GDP has grown. But the first two income quartiles, Don, their wages have gone down. So collectively, if you add up all those wages, it's around 47 trillion. And what has occurred over the last 50 years, 56 years, there is no bottoms up movement. Well, absolutely. I wrote a book about this, Survival of the Richest, which talks a lot about it. And one guy you left out was Huey Long, who was my all time political hero. And he paid the ultimate price. And he led the share our wealth movement, which was ultimately responsible for the 1938 legislation, which gave us the 40 hour work week. Because before that, my grandfather worked 365 days a year as a security guard. He got to come home for lunch. And that was common. And Huey Long wanted a 30, maybe 20 hour work week. In the 1930s, a month vacation for all workers. You know what the share of the wealth movement was. They killed him after he accused the Roosevelt administration of plotting to kill him on the floor of the Senate, which you can still read.

54:13 I just got to get an award for Huey Long. But again, he was the leader. And after he was killed, the share of the wealth movement collapsed. Gerald O. K. Smith led it kind of to the right. Well, Don, what happened was Huey Long was one reflection. Huey Long could not have existed. Again, to be accurate, there was this massive movement that has been wiped out of American history. Huey Long is celebrated, rightfully so. But there was a mass movement all over the United States, right? In Milwaukee, Wisconsin, seven American workers were shot by the National Guard fighting for the eight-hour workday. So all of these movements have been suppressed. So people can say, oh, well, you know, people are dumb. They're all followers. Bullshit. That is the lie.

55:01 That's a big lie. That's a very, very bad lie. And we have to correct people. The American working class, the history of America is about people who have ideas. They lead, they compel, they organize. So it's very important. So they have to create the CIA. And, you know, it's sort of a swarm. It's not like exactly done perfectly, but they give enough leeway to promote a Candace Owens, to promote these people and give them their views and clicks. If they were truly an anathema to the establishment, they would not be on the front page of Daily Mail. They would not get views and clicks because it's very easy to choke people on the Internet. Very easy. Don't you don't you agree that they because I come from the left and I was a member of the ACLU as a young guy and I was a very radical far leftist.

55:49 The left left a lot of us and we don't talk about late big labor is irrelevant now. We don't talk about workers rights or anything. So I agree with you. But where are the you're right. Everything has been transitioned now into influencers pointing out how corrupt everything is, which it is and how bad everybody is, but nothing ever gets done. But there are no workers. Why aren't the workers talking about A.I. and immigration and CEO salaries and all the talk about it? Well, first of all, there is one movement on this planet, which it isn't. It's a workers movement. It's a movement for truth, freedom, health. Every Thursdays we meet we're a global movement. So this is why my views are so choked. We have a half a million people globally. We have a leadership. We have an organization and it's all bottoms up, all volunteers, all workers, Don. So, again, you can literally look, I would do a tweet in 2020.

56:41 It would get a hundred thousand retweets. I do a tweet now. It gets 50 retweets. So you have to really understand this true people who are compelling people to grow bottoms up will be shadowed in. People are talking theatrics, putting on faces like fucker Carlson or Candace Owen. I mean, you look at these people, you know, they're actors. They're not real. Anyone who takes these people seriously as fighters is the bird in that cage. Yeah, but you have to agree that Tucker Carlson, though, I think he's a really good actor if he is because he's he plays a sincere role better than any of the rest of them to me, at least. Maybe I'm just being false. I mean, look, if this is the opportunism, is the evil force that the establishment uses to keep people connected to them.

57:35 Ask yourself this, Don, if you are truly a force and an affluent of the establishment, why do you get funded by the same Iranian guy, TCN, who funded JD Vance? Okay. So for God's sake, we can't be stupid anymore. We can't be naive. The establishment is very clever. Every generation. Look, Bernie Sanders in 2016, a very smart friend of mine, super smart junior fellow at Harvard. And the Ph.D. scientist, neuroscientist, very smart woman. She was running Bernie Sanders campaign in New England. You know, activists and Laurie came to my home and she said she Bernie is, you know, one of us. I don't know why you don't support him. You're so critical.

58:22 Okay. I said, Laurie, mark my words. He will do exactly at the DNC convention with Jesse Jackson did with Mondale. He will bend over. He will hug. He will hug Hillary Clinton. Mark my words. And he will give all those votes. No, no, no. You're an asshole. You always critical of people. I said, Laurie, you're fucking naive. She burst out of my house, throwing a tantrum and left. I didn't hear from her for two years. Very close friend. Two years later, she calls me crying. And she says, you were so right. What did Bernie Sanders do on the floor of the Democratic Convention? He all of this is a lesser of two evils, right? They make it that we must support Hillary. I hope people realize that the establishment is very clever. Their core goal is you sit on your ass and you try to rationalize with me. Well, couldn't Tucker Crawford be that, but, but, but fuck the butts. He's not one of us. He's not, he's not our fighter.

59:25 And until we get that cleared on, there's not going to be any movement. I agree with you. Obviously nothing, nothing ever changes for the better. I've been waiting. As I said, you know, I've been politically active since I was a little kid and Bobby Kennedy ran for president. And, you know, I cried when he got assassinated. I was crushed and nothing, everything I followed with the left, I drifted over the far right for a while. Nothing has ever happened, actually happened politically to make me mad. Because the left movement has been contained by social Democrats who talk all the right things, but they actually do not want to build a bottoms up movement. And that is why the so-called left that you were part of, you were being misled.

1:00:07 The left was not the left of the left was part of the right. Okay. And the right was really not the right. So the entire left movement since 1980s, since the post Vietnam era, look at the height of the Vietnam era, 1968, if you look at the emerging bottoms up movement, people like Malcolm X, and you can look at some of the celebrities, you know, singers, right. As a Vietnam movement grew, there was a big bifurcation between people recognizing the Democrats were actually the party of war. Yes, the Republicans wanted to bomb the shit out of Saigon. And Barry Goldwater said that. But Lyndon Johnson was also the warmonger. Right. And it was in 1968, Lyndon Johnson had machine guns on the stage of the Democratic Convention. And then he set out the cops to beat the shit out of these left demonstrators. Up until that point, Don, the generation of that time thought, oh, Lyndon Johnson is the peace candidate.

1:01:11 It was only after that people realized, holy shit, the left and the right are one, we need to create a bottoms up movement. And that is what ultimately ended the Vietnam War, because the establishment said, shit, people are getting really angry, that could be a true movement. So since that time, there has been a calculated effort to make sure people do not build the bottoms up movement. And so opportunism was fostered. The Bernie Sanders, the Rand Pauls, the Ron Pauls, nice guys. But they're not into building a bottoms up movement. They will not talk about what I just said. And this is why the left has been such a failure.

1:01:51 The left. I agree. But what do you say about the right, though? Because the right has been a failure to Reagan's movement was nothing. And MAGA, what is MAGA? Where do you stand on MAGA? So, so approaches from a mechanic standpoint, Don, number one, the goal of the establishment is to make sure a bottoms up movement never emerges. OK, just follow. So that's a goal. Of course. All right. So in order to make sure that doesn't happen, you create two. You create this dialectic left and right, and you create two brands, Republican, Democrat, donkey and elephant. And then you have the establishment wings of those like the shoulders of a bird. OK. Reagan, Mondale, Clinton, whoever it is, right, Bush, Bush. OK, so that's the establishment wing. But that bird cannot fly and sustain itself without its wings.

1:02:47 So it has the left wing and the right wing. So the left wing talks a bunch of shit, will even attack the shoulder. Of the Democrats, right, AOC will talk about the Democrat establishment, you know, blah, blah, blah. Bernie Sanders, the right had emergent properties of that like the Tea Party. Trump and MAGA was really the wing of the Republican establishment, which had not existed until Trump came along. So they needed because after Obama for eight years, the working class in the United States, black and white, were very disillusioned. So they were going to leave and do what? Start a bottoms up movement. So they create MAGA.

1:03:28 By the election integrity analysis I did, which was unbiased, the data shows that Hillary Clinton's election was stolen by Trump. And I've looked at the data, so Trump was anointed because the establishment needed MAGA to keep the white working class within its wings. So they created Trump. They created MAGA. MAGA was the wing of the right wing, OK, of the Republican establishment. And ultimately, as I predicted, who did ultimately Trump support? Lindsey Graham. It says it's right in front of you repeatedly. Yeah, right. But I'm saying that until people understand this mechanics, they're going to follow fucker Carlson, Bernie Sanders, then jump. It's like being a political prostitute.

1:04:15 Oh, my God. Tucker said some great things. Fuck Tucker. In the middle of 2020, he had an opportunity to break the most important story and he did nothing. He is delayed truth. He never does shit at the right time, only risk opportunities for him to get views and clicks. And if you don't get this, you are really, really sorry, dumb. They're manipulating you. OK, well, I want I want to and obviously there's a lot to that. I want to bring the people in here if it's OK with you to see if anybody wants to jump in. You're an intimidating guy. So I don't know if anybody's going to try to get in here, guys. I'm putting the link in the chat. So if you want to jump into the ring here with Dr. Shiva and you have questions or comments, the link is in there. You guys you guys know the trick. So we'll see if anybody dares to step up. But, you know, I I understand what you're saying and we agree. But I just wonder, you know, because you're going to step up. The issue is I really want people to understand this because I.

1:05:14 When you spend your life analyzing something, really understanding it, you know, right, you really understand what the hell's going on. It's it's engineering science that they're doing. These people are engineering people and they have it down to a science. They have it down. Tucker Carlson is a wheel in their cog. He's created by them. Again, if he's truly an anathema, why is he promoted? I got you. I got you. But before I bring because we've got a couple of people want to come in already. But before I come, isn't it? Has anybody ever said to you? Because basically when you and I agree with most of what you're saying, I know there's different. There was goes back to when I first was into the JFK assassination research community. It's filled with shields leading you down the wrong paths, overblown personalities, people arguing all the time and getting in fights. Nothing ever gets done.

1:06:02 But don't you set yourself up for people to say to you, well, what about you? How do we know you're not controlled opposition? Well, you can go look. So one way you can look at somebody, anyone, you can look at their history. You can go look at what I did at 1981 to today. You know, the fact that I've been given, you know, when I went to, after I finished my PhD, I went to Indiana Fulbright. I was appointed by the prime minister of India. They gave me an opportunity to run the biggest scientific establishment there. At the time when I was married, my father-in-law said, shut your mouth. You'll become one day minister of science and technology, you know, given your car, your home, a mansion, everything.

1:06:44 And in the middle of that, I wasn't really intrigued by any of that because I went back to say, okay, let me give some homage to my grandparents who gave me everything. That's what was my service. And I found so much corruption. I could have stayed quiet, dog. And 99% of people would have. I exposed that and under death threats, I had to leave India. It's all documented. Okay. I want people to, cause we've got a, we've got a full house here. People look at people as follow the money. You were given opportunities. Did you take it? Did you compromise? Bottom line is people aren't used to that in today's world. So they're used to people compromising and they think that's the order of the day. All right. We've got Tony, Tony tie here. It looks like he's on the road. Tony, how are you doing?

1:07:32 What do you, what do you have for Dr. Shiva? Yeah. Good to see you, Don. Thanks for having me. What I really wanted to say was if you, if you really have a following and people really hear it, like hearing what you say, you, you're not going to get that ball. And you, you've seen that with the ex Don and you, we get shadow banned everywhere. Like, you really have a power. It's, it's hard to really have one. Yeah. So it's, well, you're kind of saying the same thing. I mean, I, I have, and I have people that one of the guys, a lot of black pill people in my audience and thank everybody. But I also say, well, don't you think I'm a shield? They know everybody, but you guys, okay. Well, I guess that's good. Or, you know, they haven't gotten to you yet. So what, so when you have any questions for Dr. Shiva? No, I've seen Shiva and I like his work.

1:08:33 I think Tony, you're making an important point. So what's happened is if you remember about even 10, 15, 20 years ago, there were all these local newspapers. You remember them? Like in my town, you know, there's like three local newspapers. These were, you know, run by, yeah, they were run by mom and pop. They had their local newspaper and they'd write articles. Well, all of those local newspapers have now been consolidated by a big major private equity firm called Arabella. And so, and they put a brand on it. It looks local, but they're not. So you have the consolidation of local media and social media, you know, in 1993, I wrote a book called arts on the internet, you know, and the compelling message was the internet would be decentralized. Tony, you would build your own website, Don, you'd build your own website and we'd get equal access through search engines. But what ended up happening was that too got consolidated. Four major media companies, YouTube, Facebook control social media, and they have a direct link to government. So whenever a new technology comes, people get very excited about this is going to give us more freedom and eventually gets consolidated through the capitalist monopoly model forces consolidation. So what could be even AI, AI could be pretty amazing, but it too is being consolidated. The compute is being consolidated, you know, 10 major data centers owned by three people, right? So technology comes into being and ultimately

1:10:07 the forces of monopoly capitalism consolidated to the few, it doesn't get when the same technology could actually be distributed to the everyday people. That's the real fight. So now, to your point, in 20, up until 2020, Tony, they weren't shadow banning me. But when they realized I'm an independent voice, you had to choke it. So that's why one of the things we said the future is offline. So the future is offline. So when you know, when we run our Senate campaign, we go direct, you know, simple flyer, you know, old flyers, direct to people conversations. And what they're in fact doing there, Tony, I don't know if you noticed because I just recently bought a printer. Have you noticed most of the printers they make the ink cartridges so expensive? Oh, and now what they do is they order the printer, right? They also force you to buy a monthly plan. Yes. Your printer usage is being communicated to HP and Epson. And so the goal is also choke your usage of printing. You know, in 1982, when we used to hand out flyers, we had our own printing press in a one of these guys basement in Dorchester, old mimeograph machines. So social media is highly controlled. The local newspapers are owned. And even to go print paper now, using your own printer, they can watch that. But I think if enough people recognize the systems dynamic, and Don, this conversation we're having is still important. You say, any way that we can

1:11:43 get the message through, there are enough people out there who get this. But what does need to happen is you need to have an organized movement, you need to have structure. And that's I'm a populist. And that's why I love to bring the people on Tony, I love you, brother. But I got I got to bring I got several other people lined up here. Okay. Hey, Tony. I'm in Virginia, Bluefield. Are you in Northern Virginia? Where you at? Yeah. Bluefield, Southern Virginia, right on. Okay. Okay. Okay. So yeah. Um, is, I'm from a small town, and I've seen them take over the newspapers, like, like, Dr. Sheba saying, and the biggest thing is what he said that resonated with me is, we have to be together, this internet thing, and all that is good. Like, like Dr. Sheba said, but we have to come together and we have to make a movement. We outnumber them by the hundreds of millions and billions around the world. Like Orwell said, with his proles in 1984. We're like a horse with flies on it. All we have to do is stand up and shake them off. We just won't.

1:13:01 In my I'm not Blackfield, Don. I was for a while. But I have to give Billy Ray Valentine some props because he, he made me mad at the very beginning when I started listening to him. But he also taught me so much. And I had to realize that. And that's what made me not Blackfield is listen to what people say and take what you have. And then do your own research. And then we appreciate it, man. I appreciate you, brother. Well, thank you, guys. I want to say one thing before Tony leaves.

1:13:41 So, so what you so if you look at the history of working people, they're always told that someone or the goal is to some Messiah is going to come from above. Now I come from bottoms up. You know, a guy like me shouldn't even be have gotten this far. What I realized is that we as working people must create our own institutions to fight. But in order to fight, you need three things. It cannot be just done by protesting, right? waving banners, that's some kind of action. You can't just do it by having community. The Rotary Club has community, right? But they go get everyone vaccinated. You can't just learn the theory MIT can learn theory, you need all three.

1:14:24 You need the right theory of how to build a movement. You need a community and you need to take precise action, theory, community action. What's happened with movements is they've had the wrong theory, the foundational idea of how the world operates. It was only in the 1950s, that the understanding of large scale systems came to understand it. That was called system science, Tony and Don. It was in the 50s that the elites took that knowledge, the knowledge of how systems operate control system theory. That is what is being used right now, Don and Tony to manipulate us. And as an intellectual went to MIT as an engineer, trajectories of MIT graduates are to go join the swarm to use that knowledge against all of us, right? intellectuals or engineers are interesting. They're not in any particular class, but they can be used as tools of the poor or the rich, the working class or the elites.

1:15:20 I chose to betray the class interests of where I was headed. So I decided to take all that knowledge and realize that systems knowledge must go to people, Don. I used to teach that class was the number one elected class. So what we've done a truth for the mouth is we teach people how systems operate. You don't need to go to MIT, you need to learn that theory. And we built a global community half a million people all over the world. Tony, we have people in Virginia, using we have our own data center, our own infrastructure who make calls into Massachusetts, with people in Finland. Okay, with people in Chile, with people all over the world who recognize that the election in Massachusetts is not a US election anymore. The 100 US senators govern decide the policy of the world working class. Right? So we so one of the things we're doing, Don, we're telling everyone, you can talk all day, but we're giving people an opportunity and everyone can go to Shiva for senate.com, sign up, you'll be onboarded to help make phone calls. And wherever you are, you don't even using your phone or your computer, your minutes won't be used, you can make a phone call. And you don't even have to dial, you'll connect to a Massachusetts citizen. And you can say vote, pledge your vote for Dr. Shiva. But we're giving people a tangible action. We've had people from all over the country come here, Don, to collect signatures for us, all working people. So what I'm saying is our movement is giving people an opportunity to start stop being blackpilled and actually do something. Whether we win or lose is not the issue. In 2020,

1:16:55 no one thought we'd win or lose. But we were the ones because we ran because of the corruption. But we didn't stop, we expose the backdoor portal, we ran the firefighter camp. And you see, when when people start moving, the win here is not to win on their battleground. The win is to get people involved and realize, wow, I'm overcoming my shyness to hand out a flyer. It's really weird for people to interact with people. I'm overcoming my shyness to talk to a stranger on the phone. The social isolation is what they want to do, Don. So I'm saying that and certainly the internet makes that easier. I want to get to the other people. Tony, thanks, brother. Make some phone calls for us. We have a lot of people in Virginia.

1:17:36 Thank you. That's great. Okay, we're going to Patrice Hartman. How you doing? Patrice, good to see you here. Good to see you. Not actually see you, but good to hear you. Some people don't want to have their I didn't wash my hair today. What do you have for Dr. Shiva? Well, first of all, did you do any research on Don? Because like everything you've been saying, he like already knows, and we've talked about for... Oh, it's okay. I'm not a big name. I understand. I appreciate you saying that. Well, I just... You love my book, Survival of the Richest. Yeah. Well, yeah. No, I appreciate it.

1:18:16 Don, what's that book? What's that book title again? Survival of the Richest. Okay. How the corruption of the world and the disparity of wealth created the greatest conspiracy. Naomi Wolf wrote the foreword before... I don't think we're friends anymore. She turned on you. Yeah. Turned out to be quite the Zionist. I doubt she likes me anymore. Okay. So all these concepts, everything you've talked about, yeah. Don's audience pretty much... Well, I'll speak for myself. We're so totally over it. As I always say, my stance is I no longer acknowledge the government's false authority over me. It's all a sham. They've usurped everything.

1:19:04 It's a fricking joke. And we're done. I didn't vote. Voting for the lesser of two evils is still evil. And so I think our government just needs to be torn down and start all over again. And also, I don't know, do you consider yourself an anarchist, Patrice? Because I tell you, Dr. Sheila, I don't have any argument with being an anarchist anymore. I follow rules. I follow rules. I say, excuse me, I'm very polite. Yeah. But I mean, in terms of the anarchy, I think they believe, because I don't see any authorities anywhere that deserve my respect at this point.

1:19:50 None of them do. I mean, the fricking county commissioner lived across the street from me and won every time he was up because he was never challenged. I mean, it's a fricking joke. I wish my friend Vince Agnelli was in the chat because Dr. Sheila in Virginia, he has analyzed the voting patterns in Virginia and he does a deep dive and he shows how these Republicans and Democrats, the way they play this game is so many of them, they agree certain races, they don't even run an opponent. They agree not to run a challenger.

1:20:30 It's completely like sports. How is it any different? And this has been going on since the country was created. This isn't new news. So it's going to be the people. We are the government and we're going to have to stick together. But I think like what happened on January 6th, I think you get a lot of people in one room and yeah, you're screwed. I think it's a big old setup. What do you think? And then we'll ask those people. What do you think about this thing where Trump has some kind of fun for the January 6th?

1:21:14 Oh, I think that's ridiculous. I've had a lot of them on my show. Yeah. No, but I think it's ridiculous. That he having anybody do anything and is what his new soon to be attorney general, his old personal attorney. I mean, this is just ridiculous. There is such conflict of interest right in your face and they know it. And they want to just say to us, screw you, you don't matter. And this is what we're doing. And this is what we're doing. And they do what they want to do. You talked to Rents so many times, the powers that be, they're going to play it the way they want it. And if they want you gone, you are gone.

1:22:04 You are gone. They have no problem. That's absolutely. Do you have a question for Dr. Shaver? Yes, I have a technical question. So you said you created email, right? Is that correct? Yeah. I invented it when I was 14. Email the system. Okay. Well, so I'm trying to understand how it was really kind of any different than IBM on an AS400 doing a DFU and being a CUSAC offer and being able to go behind the scenes and send messages to all the users. Yes, that's a great question. So there, the simple exchange of text messages, Patrice, has existed between electronic devices since 1930.

1:23:01 In fact, IBM did a radio type. That's not what I created. I've never claimed to create electronic messaging. I created email, the system. What is email? I don't know how old you are, Patrice, but anyone over the age of 50. I'm 64. Yeah. So you're two years senior to me, but anyone over the age of 50 remembers in every organization, there was this thing called the inter-office mail system. Do you remember that? Typically the secretary, the typewriter, remember she had a physical inbox, the outbox, the trash can. Oh, I go, I'm older school than that. It was handwritten notes. Yeah. So handed it to the president. Right. Right. So I was at a time with 1978, right? In this medical school, they had the, remember they had the old pneumatic tubes. A lot of people don't remember this, right?

1:23:51 Oh, your tube system. Yeah. I remember that. And then you had the typewriter, which had the paper, the carbon paper. Weren't those the dye bulbs? Yeah, right. Was that dye bulb that made those? Yeah. Yeah. The pneumatic tubes. So there was, in many organizations, even in the office of the prime minister or the white house in those days, or in most organizations, the secretary was the node in this very complex inter-office mail system. So in an organization, either, remember they had the physical phone. We didn't have cell phones. Faxes were just coming, but you had the inter-office mail system, which was a mainstay of communications.

1:24:33 And that system, if you go to inventor of email, you'll see all the stuff that went into the Smithsonian was many, many features. Remember Patrice, it was an interlock system, right? You have to, you had to have the inbox. You have to have the outbox, the drafts folder. You'd have to have the carbon copy. Remember they had the little registered email. The guy would come pick up the mail. So you have this very complex system. Even in those days on big mainframes, you could exchange simple text messages, right? Between the guy who was in the computer room, et cetera. What I did, which had not been done. In fact, in 1977, a paper was written by ARPANET, which said to convert that entire system, what they call the inter-office inter-organization mail system was impossible. And it was very interesting. It was very discriminatory against women. They said, because the users of that system, quote-unquote, were not smart enough to move to the computer. So I, as a 14-year-old kid was asked to convert that entire system Patrice, the system into the electronic version. So I had to go find out. So you did a flow chart? So you did everything. Everything's up there. Not only a flow chart, I wrote 50,000 lines of code across in 8K of memory, 32 programs. And I named that system email, Patrice. A term never used before in the English language, but I put every feature together. IBM came there. We were, you know, we weren't like Silicon Valley. I gave seminars to the 14-year-old. It was used throughout the Rutgers Medical School, what is now known as Rutgers Medical School. Named it email, won one of

1:26:08 the Westinghouse Science Awards, which is known as the Baby Nobles. When I came to MIT, Patrice was out of the 1,000 students, I was listed as the top three of inventing email. Now, I didn't really care for all of that PR if I had been in Bill Gates's family, would have been promoted. And Patrice, you may remember, in the 19, software was just coming. The way I started doing this was, I was very good at math and played baseball and a bunch of things, but I was accepted into a computer science program at NYU where the U.S. government and NSF had funded a professor at NYU to identify 40 students who could be trained in a new field called software engineering. I was one of those 40. I was very fortunate. So, I was trained, had some humanities classes left, and I got a full-time job at this institution, okay? And I was initially doing medical research on looking at baby sleep patterns and how to detect that using what you would now call AI algorithms. And then, because I was good at programming, they gave me this challenge. Named it email, and when I came to MIT, the president of MIT, a guy called Paul Gray, said it's too bad we can't patent software. But he's the one who said in 1980, Congress had allowed you to take software and use a copyright law to protect software invention. So, in 1982, I was given the official copyright for recognizing me as the inventor of email. All of this is documented, Patrice. You can go find it. The interesting thing, Patrice, the real story here was, I created email. I never said I created text messaging.

1:27:41 That's a simple exchange of text messages, which goes back to Samuel Morris, okay? But I created email the system. Every feature that you see in modern email, put it into the Library of Congress, never IP protected. It's shared with it. And after 1980, you'll see various versions. The only problem is that copyright law doesn't protect design, you see, which is what patent law did. But the ability to patent software didn't come until 1994 when the Federal Court of Appeals said software is a digital machine. Nonetheless, what's fascinating is I never sought fame or fortune. It was in 19, sorry, 2011 when my mother was dying of a horrible disease. She had three months to live in a beautiful suitcase. She had organized all of my work from 1933, Patrice.

1:28:29 The software code, I had all of it. The tapes, the copyright, all the awards around it. And the editor of Time Magazine, Doug Ammitt, reviewed all of this and he wrote an article. You can find it called The Man Who Invented Email. Two months later, the Smithsonian said, oh my God, we didn't know you had all this. And they honored me at the Smithsonian as the inventor of email. You can find it all online. What should have been an occasion for celebration, Patrice, because there's, there's, it's black and white. I invented email. But the problem was- Why didn't Hillary Clinton steal the patent? Hillary Clinton? Yeah, she, that she worked for the patent office. She's the queen of the patents.

1:29:10 I didn't know Hillary Clinton worked for the patent office. Oh yeah, that's how she started out. I say, wow, I didn't know that. But anyway, 19, in 2012, when it went into the Smithsonian, it created this quote unquote controversy. And the real controversy, Patrice, is that the narrative during those 33 years, which Americans are pummeled with every day, is that all great innovations come from war, the military industrial complex, right? Tang and Velcro. Email wasn't created by the ARPANET. What they did was did simple text messaging. At best, it was a caveman version of Reddit. But Raytheon in 2012 had branded, you know, the big missile company had branded their entire website as the inventors of email.

1:29:52 So when my stuff went in, it was like a new skull was found in Africa, putting the origin of email, not to a military problem of communication, but to a civilian problem of moving secretaries from the typewriter to the keyboard. That's the actual origin of email. So it was only in 2012 I said, shit, the level of abuse I got. How dare you say this? You must be a fraud, blah, blah, blah. Four years of this, eventually we found a lawyer, Gawker Media, you may look them up. Gawker called me all sorts of names. We sued them. One, and I got a million dollar payout. And the Wikipedia page, Patrice, was locked because a narrative of a 14-year-old kid in Newark, New Jersey, where nothing's supposed to come out, independently invented email, the system, shatters this narrative that you have to go to MIT or be a dropout out of Harvard.

1:30:44 That's a real story. The same thing happened to Filo Farnsworth, Patrice, 14-year-old boy on a farm in Idaho who actually did create TV. Now, this thing may seem 14 years old. A lot of young people create many amazing things because they don't see the bounds of what they cannot do. So the real story here is not, the facts are obvious. You can go to whoinventedemail.com. We've had to since document this, memorialize it, et cetera. But the real issue is why was so much vitriol? And it leads to the fact that that everyday people are innovating all the time, right? But they have to make sure innovation itself is farmed and curated, you see, and engineered by the few. You could be a nerd who drops out of Harvard. That's cool. You get to start, you get to say you created the first operating system. By the way, Bill Gates didn't. It was done by a small guy Bill Gates stole it from. So where innovation comes from, the truth is it comes from an environment of collaboration.

1:31:48 You get some infrastructure and inspiration. That's where email came from. It did not come from the military-industrial-academic complex. And that story must be questioned because that means great innovations do not need venture capital funding, billions of dollars. Right now, the way innovation takes place, Patrice, you get a bunch of VCs together. They get $100 billion or $10 billion fund. They throw a bunch of money to 100 people and Google comes out. They go, oh, aren't we great? But you, I mean, I was paid the first two years nothing. I was given food in the cafeteria, which I thought was great. And the third year I got paid $1.25 an hour, Patrice. I can believe all that. Yeah. We still have a couple more lined up. I want to make sure we get to them. Patrice, do you have anything else? Thank you, Patrice. Thank you very much, dear. Appreciate it. Okay. I want to bring Ellen and R.B. in. Ellen Corley. Ellen is on, I think, the same wavelength as you. She still has some idealism in her and she tries to run for political office. Good to see you, honey. How are you doing? Fine, thank you. Yes, it's good I found my way here. It's sometimes challenging with the social media and, you know, but yeah, it's interesting to see Dr. Shiva. I guess I, you know, in a way I identify with you a lot. I ran for Congress this

1:33:21 this term, tried to get on the ballot as a Democrat, because in 2020 when I tried to get on the ballot as a Green, I was, because it was a pandemic, I actually got thrown off. Someone said I was anti-Semitic because I was pro-Palestinian. So, basically, you know, basically, what's interesting is the pandemic is what got me, you know, motivated to run, but the idea was to get into Congress so that my voice could be heard. You know, we'd have somebody who's demanding truth. My background is market research and, you know, I could research anything, right? But, you know, what's crazy is that the scientific community still calls us misinformation people. I was just looking at your website, your Wikipedia page, and, you know, I guess my theory, you talk about wanting, you know, to organize the people, but you, I mean, you organized a lot of people. I got on the ballot just by standing there and getting, you know, 1,240 signatures, but, you know, I noticed, I guess, that you wrote a book about how to get PR on the internet, which is a great, that's key here, but I guess one question

1:34:57 is how do we know you're not a controlled opposition, you know? I mean, you say Tucker Carlson is, but, you know, what? His name is Fucker Carlson. Yeah, I noticed you saying that, right? But, I mean, as a, I'm basically a truther. I'm active with a group called the truthactionproject.org, and, you know, people should come to that, but our strategy really has been to try to get Dr. Anna to open all the files. We want to get the truth out about the COVID, about 9-11, about Kennedy, about everything, because the government is lying to us, right?

1:35:40 And they're using their control over the media to, you know, to keep it all covered up and maintain their big lies, and, you know, so, I mean, you know, it seemed that Tucker Carlson, the fact that some people are starting to speak out about, well, he got thrown off a fox for speaking out about the vaccine. He wasn't vaccinated, you know, and I think that kind of gives him credibility, you know, that he kind of paid a price. Just, you know, I paid a price. Yeah, so, first of all, we can have, we should do a whole show on Fucker Carlson, okay?

1:36:25 He is not a martyr. He is engineered by the establishment to make people think he's working for us, okay? Now, if you look at my history, you can line up my history, and you should go do the research since you guys want to do that, and you can line it up with Fucker Carlson's history, okay? And you will see a compelling difference. The difference is, people like myself and others, the fundamental difference is it goes to motivate a bottoms-up movement, not to get views and clicks and jump from one bed to another bed. Well, let me finish, because you asked me a question, okay? The other piece is, when it comes to electoral politics, um, there, you know, the establishment, when you come to a point in life, Ellen, that you say, I don't like the way things are, right? Right now, they only give you two choices about how to change the world, and both of them are controlled by them. Run for office, Ellen, you could have a voice in Congress or whatever, or file a lawsuit, all right? Become a lawyer, file a lawsuit, okay? So, they give you these two options of how social change takes place, but they do not ever talk about the actual option that has ever changed anything, which I talked in the first part of Dawn's discussion here, which is bottoms-up, independent movements, which can be organized, understanding how these movements actually work. They actually understand this, Ellen. So, let me repeat, they give you electoralism or legalism.

1:37:59 That is the vehicle. So, when I was 17, oh, go work in your congressman's office, right? Oh, go be a lawyer, right? Those are the two options. No one ever taught me that there are bottoms-up movements. You can go look at the history of the movements in Russia, the Paris Commune, all of these are never- Right, but it's changed by the media because of social media and algorithms and cable replacing network television, which was an operation. The CIA under William Casey in the 80s said, this will be perfect. We'll cancel the fairness doctrine and we don't have any media journalists covering the truth, right? It's just gotten worse. And so, that's the real problem, as I see it, that needs to be solved. And I think we need to restore those right regulations, like the FCC and the fairness doctrine. But basically, the corrupt people got in there, the Republicans in 1980, mainly with Reagan and well, under Nixon, it's all part of a long plot that's been unfolding, right? You have like a question, because I want to make sure I understand.

1:39:14 How do we know you're not controlled opposition? I mean, you've got tons of views and tons of money and tons of work and a lot of clicks and people, whereas someone like me, maybe if we put in a law that says, well, one term limits, but just everybody has to be made sure they're not controlled opposition. That's what it seems like. Kamala is and he is, but if you've got that many clicks, I don't see, you know, you and Tucker are kind of the same. I mean, you've been able to do a lot. As many as Tucker, but you or that and that, Dr. Sheeb, doesn't your success, how do you become successful and not be charged?

1:39:55 That's the issue, Don. The issue here with me is the following in 2020, when my social media channel really took off, Alan, there was a period between 2018 to 2020. When the censors, so it was in 2018 and 2019 at Harvard Belfer School, they created the entire censorship infrastructure to social media. You go to winbackfreedom.com, we document it. They literally created manuals on how you would track, quote unquote, misinformation, severity levels, and how you would shadow ban those people. That was done by a bipartisan group at the Belfer School, okay? So now between 2018 to 2020, you will see explosive growth in my social media. I used to do five videos a day, because as a scientist, I was the first one who came out against Fauci.

1:40:44 I was the first one who came out against the lockdowns long before. I developed a protocol for people, the vitamin D protocol, which Zelenko stole, okay? We saved hundreds of millions of people's lives. You can see that. But it was- I remember you. Right, but it was in that period, the censors hadn't really come in, and they hadn't gotten their shit together. After 2020, they said, fuck, this guy is not one of us. So the right-wing MAGA people thought I was a trumper, because I was exposing election integrity. And the medical freedom people loved me. Oh, you should work with Boobie Kennedy, right? So I was doing my own independent shtick. I wasn't in any of these other camps. And that is problematic, Ellen, because I can't be controlled. So after 2020, you will see my views and levels have stayed the same. Go to YouTube. It's 250,000 followers, right?

1:41:40 And none of them grow. In fact, so what's happened is I will do a tweet now. So after I won that lawsuit, YouTube and Twitter has been very afraid to fuck with me. So what they do is they put me in a digital cage. And the way that cage works, censorship, and I can explain this, before the goal was throw them off, ban them, take them off. Now it's a little more sophisticated. You leave the person on, but you control the reach. In fact, Elon Musk said, he said the same thing as the Zionist ADL said, free speech does not equal free reach, which was exactly the opposite to what the First Amendment was about. So they'll leave me on, let me do all my stuff, but they control the reach. Okay. So you can see that 100,000 retweets down to 20. Okay.

1:42:34 So fucker Carlson is promoted. He's actively promoted because a guy like me having that reach, because I'm not corralling people to back to the establishment. I'm saying you need to build your own independent movement. Here are some tools. Yeah. Okay. But this is what, can I, yeah, that it seems to me that... One more point, Ellen, because I want to bring R.B. Hammond, because he's been waiting a long time. Okay. Here's the last point, is that I would think we need regulations over the parties, like that, you know, that it doesn't come down to someone like you versus someone like your competition, because, you know, even if you're independent, you've got a lot of money and that's the, it's an oligarchy and right. And so the, you know, and it also raises suspicion. I'm basically become a specialist in opposition research and, you know, that you've got a million dollars from Gawker, that's not on there, but is that the, did you work with Peter Thiel to do that? Because he was the one that also financed a thing against Gawker, right? I mean, so. Yeah. So the interesting story there is, I mean, I don't know how much you want to, so Gawker Media, I didn't even know a lot about it.

1:43:51 Yeah. Kind of keep it brief because I'm going to bring R.B., Ellen, just you can hang there. I'm going to bring R.B. when it's okay. Bottom line is, you know, I was out in California and I was being attacked and I found an attorney called Charles Harder. Charles looked at this and he took my case on contingency. Independently, Charles had done the case for, what was the name, Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan, remember he had done this video? Yeah. So same guy, right? Yeah. Peter Thiel financed that, right? Yeah, but I didn't know anything about that. My case was done independently of all of that. Contingency that like, if you win, he'd get the money. So you got a million dollars and he got half of it or something. What happened was I got 750 taxes, but I think Harder, the law firm, took 30%. And whatever money I got, I used it to go sue the next guy, you know, in a different case. And that connection with Peter Thiel is very suspicious, right? Don't you think? I mean, in terms of- I didn't know anything about that.

1:44:55 Yeah. Well, yeah, but you get a lot of clicks because of that. You've got public awareness and that's what makes me frustrated. It's just an average Joe like me with no money, no money. Ellen can't get into it yet. Go and do your research because you claim you do research. Right, right. Don't draw a graph and we don't do this. We have to reform the system though so people like me can get in there, right? I agree. I agree, Ellen. I got to let you go. Okay, go ahead. Yeah, because I want to have R.B. have a chance. Yeah, go. So tactically, just to finish the Ellen thing, I'm not into reforming the system, okay? We're into building movement. To the extent that I run for office, we know that they cheat and lie. However, independent people running for office, if you go with it with no false illusions that you're going to get in there and you're going to change the system, however, by running for office, it's another platform, Don, to give an opportunity to discuss issues that would not be discussed, right? I want to make sure we have this. You're going to love R.B. Hamm. This guy is from Canada.

1:46:11 He is somebody that does something. He was one of the leaders of the Canadian trucker convoy. He paid the price. The government fined him $50,000. I hope he'll give out his, I don't know if he's frozen. R.B., are you there? Can you hear me? Yeah. He's a trucker. He's on the road all the time. How are you doing, R.B.? What do you got for Dr. Shiva? Doing good. I just wanted to say that I was actually a part of a grassroots, bottoms-up political movement here in Canada until I'm 20 here in Saskatchewan. Independent of anything else, just because I knew there was some mind-fuckery going on because of my research and I'm just the whole life story that there's something going on. So I started protesting in the streets, met 12 or 13 other people the very first day, protest against the COVID mandates restrictions before they even became law here in Saskatchewan, because they'd already been started rolling out everywhere else. We knew it was coming to us. And eventually that movement of 12 or 13 people in a few months got to the thousands, the tens of thousands.

1:47:21 And then I saw, you know, I watched as the movement grew and it turned into the Canadian Freedom Convoy that rolled into Ottawa and shut everything down and eventually changed the whole way that this was going, because they were, like with Justin Trudeau and the fascism that was going on here, they were 100% determined to get COVID vaccine mandates and restrictions and travel restrictions that were going to shut you down unless you got an app on your phone and you had to, you know, to show you were vaccinated and allowed to go into places. Anyway, the Canadian Freedom Convoy happened and because of that mass movement of working class, bottoms up movement, they overreacted so violently with when they shut down the truckers convoy when they're sending the horses and the storm troopers and beat everybody down, that it kind of sparked that movement across the entire world. There was copycat movements in Ireland, even in the United States had their own trucker convoy.

1:48:25 And I firmly believe that that probably saved us from, you know, a true fascist over, using COVID as the excuse, a huge fascist overtake of our system. But at the same time, at that time when that happened, all the provinces here in Canada, all at the same time after that, got rid of all the mandates, restrictions and all that stuff. They got rid of it all at the same time because they were scared to death. Their base, their political base was turning against them here in Saskatchewan. We had a conservative premier who was on board with all the mandates, restrictions and everything. But as soon as the Freedom Convoy happened, he got rid of them all, proving it was political the whole time. Before that, he was hiding behind his chief public health officer, a guy named Shahab, who was a failed plastic surgeon from Pakistan, who was parachuted in here by the World Economic Forum and the World Health Organization, got his bureaucratic training at the Johns Hopkins University for health security.

1:49:18 He was probably present during their 2019 event 201 scenario. You know, anyway, if you want to know about that, then Dr. Schuman knows all about this stuff. But what I'm saying is after that Canadian Freedom Convoy happened, and they got rid of all the mandates, restrictions, everybody went back to sleep. That's the problem. Oh, we won. No, you didn't win. They just delayed. They're just delaying. And now they're going to be, and they're already trying to do climate change lockdowns next or energy lockdowns, you know, using the war in the Middle East as an excuse to jack up your gas prices and make it, you know, giving you energy restrictions, lockdowns, you know, they go so far in a gas tank. And they've already talked about this with the 15-minute cities, and you'll own nothing to be happy. A jet at 20, 30, it all works together.

1:50:06 And that's the problem we have is complacency. Because I was part of that ground, that bottoms up movement. I saw it happen. I saw it go in effect. I saw it be successful. Then everybody else goes back to sleep. And then there's also the infiltration thing. And we can talk about that in the context of COINTELPRO or Operation Chaos. But here's this, here in Canada, I saw it happen. Rebel News, a Zionist news agency here in Canada, got their hooks into the Freedom Convoy people. And they use Zionism as a way to split Freedom Convoy from the right. And people like me and you, Don, you know, old social justice, left warriors, who believed in the classic liberals, you know, freedom of speech, freedom of body autonomy, they go after us the same way, and divide us through empathy, you know, weaponizing empathy. You know, you're a good person if you follow what the government's doing, because you don't want to be considered one of those people. So they use the divide and conquer tactic. You see it happening. I was telling people it was happening. But they don't listen, because they're they're set in their ways, you know. And then the complacent. So when you combine the complacency and the infiltration, it's a long road to hoe. I've been fighting against all my life, especially the last four or five years. I too, Dr. Shiva ran for office once as a campaign manager. And then the last election, I ran for the PPC, the People's Party of Canada here in Saskatchewan.

1:51:27 And we're not, we don't get any traction and no media coverage. And if it is media coverage, it's always demonize us and call us horrible names and stuff. And then you have a question or what I want to get Dr. Shiva. I want to agree with Dr. Shiva. I think he's on the right track. Yes, the grassroots bottoms up is the only way you can do it. But how do you guard against the complacency? How do you get, how do you break through the complacency? And number two, how do you guard against infiltration? Because I think that's the two biggest problems we have. Yeah, so let me answer that question. So by the way, is it RB? So RB, you know, when the truckers movement was taking place, we, you know, have a pretty big base in Canada.

1:52:13 We built an entire website, we handed up probably close to, you know, millions of buyers out there. And we gave our political position that the truckers movement should be supported by other. But you guys can go look at that. But I think the fundamental question is this, really, really good way perhaps to end this discussion. But RB is bringing up probably the most central point here. So as I was sharing with Ellen, you get to a point in life, you realize you don't like the way things are, and you want to change it, right? So to people like Ellen, they give her only two opportunities, run for office, or go, you know, become a lawyer, file lawsuits. They don't give people the third route, which is to build a bottoms up movement, which we know is the only thing that works. So if you go down that route, then you have, you're compelled to really understand, okay, I know bottoms up movements work. You can look at historically, right? It's been the slaves rising up and trying to sort things out. And you come to certain principled conclusions with that. Number one, it doesn't happen overnight. Number two, you have to create an organizational structure. It can't just be anarcho-syndicalist, okay? And number three, you have to have a foundation of how you do this, okay? And that aspect is not something that happens just with some dilettante approach.

1:53:41 So if I want to build a bridge, let's say you and I, and Don, we said, let's go build a bridge. You could just sort of try to do it, right? And we may just get lucky and get everything correct and we'll build it. Or we say, you know what? To build a bridge, I really have to understand physics and forces and how things work. And once you understand that, you can use that theory, capital T, to build a bridge. You guys see what I'm saying? Or if you say, hey, look, I want to build something called an airplane, or I want to fly. What took human beings recognition that you have to understand Bernoulli's principle? And engineering, if you're building stuff, you get this concept. You can get lucky and maybe build an airplane. But once you understand principles, you can actually build an airplane. That same thinking, R.B., has not been applied to political movements. The first, I mean, so in the history of human development to try to overthrow their slave master, you know, you had revolts, right? The early 1700s and 1800s were more liberal, classical liberal thinking. These weren't done by people. These were done by philosophers, right? Or political scientists. If you look at Marx, was really a social scientist. So if you look at the works of Lenin, so or Che Guevara, right? I mean, on the left, right? And you can even look at it on the right, both sides. They were sort of probing the world to try to say, how do you build a movement? So you had fascism arose, right? Out of that, right? Different

1:55:16 aspects of these concepts called human movements. The biggest problem was there was really not a physics to understanding how to build a movement, R.B. and Don. That fundamental, so if you go read State and Revolution by Lenin, right? Lenin is talking about this feature of the obvious establishment and the social democrats, the Mensheviks, right? So he was starting to understand some of these features. But the Leninist model was a centralized governance system, which would bring the vanguard. But it was, it didn't have the concept of system science. It was only in 1957, with the work of Ilya Pogrony, that we started understanding systems and control systems theory.

1:55:57 So my point is that the development of the masses of people trying to free themselves from the oppressor to create a different world, that is no different than people trying to figure out how to fly or to build a bridge. You need a physics. And without that, we'll be sort of just, you know, hitting our head against a wall. And that physics, you know, with all the degrees I got at MIT, what I uncovered was there is a knowledge of system science. And you can apply this. It is the fundamental basis of understanding all systems, R.B. And what that reveals is that there is a physics, there are principles, and you have to educate at least a core group of people to understand this. And it doesn't happen overnight. Now, we've done that. You've had to create your own university of sorts, okay? You have to educate people. So you have to have the right theory.

1:56:47 Number two, you have to have a community. Not everyone's going to understand all the details, but you do have to have enough people. And then you have to build a community, which recognizes that change is not going to happen overnight. So to your point, you know, revolutionaries have said it is very in vogue to be a revolutionary when revolution is in the air, and then people go back to their lives, right? So it's cool to be part of the truckers movement when everyone's part of the truckers movement. Or it's cool to be antiwar, and then when the antiwar stuff ends, people go back. So part of the recognition is that feature, R.B., that working people are working hard. So you have to almost integrate the aspect of changing the world into life, like eating, you know, hydrating, working out, this. And that's what we are doing.

1:57:45 So in Truth Through the Mouth, you know, it's been a long, I recognize you have to take, you can't take system science and only teach it to 50 people at MIT. You're going to use it to impress people. So that knowledge we've brought into, that's the core theory. And it's the most cutting edge theory of how to build a movement. The next thing is you have to build a community. You have to have organizational structure. But the organization develops based on meritocracy, about contributions people make, all volunteers. And it has to be global. The problem with revolutionary movements, when it's in one country, it can get hammered, okay? It has to be decentralized, and you have to have parallel infrastructure. So we've created that. And then the other thing is you have to be innovative here, coming up with actions people can be collectively involved in that raises their consciousness, knowing that we're playing the long game RB. So now given that context, why am I running for office? Well, my running for office in 2018, even though I don't believe in the electoral system. But when we ran against Elizabeth Warren, because the goal was to build a movement, a lot of people got involved, right? Oh, but we use the fake Indian, real Indian things really exposed the issue of hypocrisy and corruption. In 2020, it was more even more interesting, because that run exposed the fact that voting machines are corrupt. So when you step into the corruption, you poke the bear, the bear attacks, you take that information, and you

1:59:16 educate people. But it's not like we're talking about Kennedy stuff 40 years ago, or 9-11. We're talking about here now, if you're giving people the experience of poking the bear, getting feedback, so you create warrior scholars, you say, so we're just we're just about out of time. I appreciate you going so long, Dr. Shiva. RB, sum up real quick. And then I'll let our I want to let Dr. Shiva promote whatever he wants to promote. No, I think that Dr. Shiva is on the right point. And I've been following his work before. A lot of people don't like the way he's so forthright about calling out the people that are that are suspected of being controlled opposition and everything. And I understand he gets a lot of blowback from that. But at least he speaks the truth, his own truth, and is not afraid of that. And I find that very admirable. And thank you for everything you're doing, Dr. Shiva. It was great being on the show. Don, thanks for inviting me on to talk to Dr. Shiva. I'd like to have Dr. Shiva on my show sometime to really explore this and flesh it out, because I think he's onto something. The biggest problem we have is fighting through the complacency and infiltration. If there is a way that we could fight back against that in a in a manner that opens people's minds up to it, you know, that gives them the tools, the philosophical and basically infrastructural tools to deal with it, because it's going to happen every time. I think that's a real good step forward. And I want to thank you for everything you're doing.

2:00:43 Yeah, RB. And so I guess I'll do that, RB, we should flush this out, because this is a central issue. And that's the infrastructure that we've created. It's been a long. So we've created our own tools. But to enable the individual to go through their own conscious understanding. And that's what you want. It's not going to happen overnight. To think you're going to do one movement is going to happen. That is what the establishment wants to do, because that's how they run everything, right? Giving this very decadent way of human existence, right? You do this, you take this pill, and you lose 50 pounds, you do this one action and things, oh, and it didn't happen. Oh, my God, movements fail. So that we have to teach people those dynamics, right? To get really healthy. It's a long process. Right? You have to have some discipline, you have to schedule yourself, you have to eat right, we have to do a bunch of things.

2:01:30 It's not any one thing. And health develops over time. So if you want to build a political movement to smash the existing swarm, to think it's going to happen overnight, that itself is what should not be promoted. This is a long game. It could be a very long game. But the important thing is to understand that you have to build and grow a movement based on these very fundamental understanding of the scientific principles of how to build a movement, the fact that you need community, and that you're taking actions to strengthen your own political muscle, just like you would go lift weights. And that knowledge is what we need to teach. So out of that, Arby, you get a set of really good people, not like, you know, dilettante people come and go.

2:02:13 That structure needs to be built, Arby, and that hasn't been. Dr. Schieve, we could go on and on. You've got a lot of information, you got a lot to say. And we all certainly wish you luck in Congress. God knows we need somebody in there who is involved. Where can people find you or anything you want to close? This is what the, so by the way, I thank you. You have a great audience. What I want to offer people the opportunity for their own growth is people should go to Schieve for Senate, wherever you are. We have people in Canada calling. Within a few minutes, people can get onboarded and help make phone calls right into Massachusetts. People can go to Truthfreedomhealth.com.

2:02:55 We've created a set of 20 free courses, a curriculum, and wherever people want to go, they can participate. There's a leadership team. So we've created a parallel institution for training. We've created right now an action opportunity with My Run for Senate. And people need to understand, My Running for Senate is a global opportunity, because this is why Israel spent so much money on funding every senator and congressman. Because a U.S. Senate election is not a U.S. Senate election. It is a global position. So my winning in Massachusetts, and we have the opportunity to potentially win, because we have brand equity here. And Massachusetts is the intellectual center, Don and Arby, of the global swarm, Harvard, MIT, et cetera.

2:03:43 So what I would compel people to do is action-oriented, go to Schieve for Senate, sign up to volunteer, and spend one hour a day. And we make it easy. You don't have to dial. You click a button, and it'll connect you to a conversation with somebody. It's really fun. Well, we certainly wish you luck. And I appreciate you taking all the time. We've gone over, you know, lots of great stuff. Arby, maybe you can have Dr. Schieve on your show, too, the audience. Thanks, Ellen. Thanks, Arby. Thanks, Patrice. Thanks, Tony. Thanks, everybody in the chat. I can't go over everybody, but I appreciate you taking all the time, Dr. Schieve. I want to thank Jerry Payne for connecting us, Don. Yes. Thank you very much, Jerry Payne. I think he's a regular Substack reader for me. And he said you're a campaign manager. I was like, wow, that's really cool. So yeah, thanks, Jerry, very much for hooking us up.

2:04:34 And thanks, everybody. Thank you again, Dr. Schieve. Good luck to you. Thanks, everybody, for listening to my protests. We'll talk to you next week at the exact same time. Take care. Thank you.