#241 America Unplugged -25 Years After 9/11: New Questions, Old Wounds

0:36 Francis the man died of a big disease with a little name. By chance, his girlfriend came across a needle and soon she did the same. At home, there were 17 little boys and they liked to have fun. He's being in a gang called the Disciples, high on crack, totally shingled. What's going on everybody? It is America Unplugged, the War on Reality report this September 11th weekend, 25 years since the attack, uh, on my, my, my homeland here in, in New York City. They knocked down my towers and, you know, uh, one, one time I did an interview not too long ago and they asked me if there was any trauma, did I have any trauma from that day because I was, I was there and I saw them collapse and a stuff went down that day. Um, and I said, no, I don't, I don't think I have any trauma.

1:41 Um, but that might have been said in ignorance, not really knowing what trauma was, you know, or, or what type of trauma, you know, there's different, you know. So that, you know, the fact that it, it changed my life and, and, and I've done all of this because of that event, most I almost certainly, uh, it, it prob— definitely had some type of trauma that I'm just not aware of, you know. And I was thinking about that last night, um, when I was reviewing, uh, you know, what went down on September 11th, 2001 here in New York City. Um, I got to see, uh, and meet, uh, Scotty Armstrong. What's up, Scotty? And Richard Grove. That was very nice to spend some time with them. Also, a, a, a nice, a nice lady, uh, uh, I'm gonna mess up your name because I mess up everybody's name. It's either Julia or, or, or you told me Julia. I said Julia, but I could be wrong. Okay, Julie, something like that. How are you? And, and she told me specifically, uh, not to yell at you anymore, not to be nice to Don Jeffries. She said it several, several times. She was like, Billy Ray, that should apply to everyone. Everyone should be nice to me. Everybody should, but everybody is nice to Don Jeffries. She was, she was referring to the pushback I give you, and she was like, be nice to Don. I'm like, Don's my boy, you know. And everybody else I met out there, um, what's up to all of you? Uh,

3:13 thank you for listening to America Unplugged. I thought that was very cool that I got to meet a couple of people that, that, um, you know, listen to our show, which, which was dope. Um, anyway, uh, so there are certain things I want to get into about 9/11, um, because it's what propelled me into this. And we got Ashley here today and we got Don. I'm gonna go around the horn. It's what propelled me into this, but there was a lot of, a lot of things that I just didn't know and I just accepted about the alternative theories to the event. I didn't accept everything, but I did accept some things. And now in retrospect, I'm looking back and I'm like, oh, but there are still some things that I'm very, very suspicious about, me personally. Um, and there could be reasonable explanations for this. I just don't buy into them, or I don't understand them. It's one of the two, or, or maybe both in some cases. And we'll, we'll get into some of this stuff. Don Jeffries, how are you? We are going to talk about Donald Trump giving you money, more money in your veins, more money in your pocket, more money in your bank accounts. I mean, because we have just been floating in dough. We keep winning and winning and winning. Yeah, we're going to talk a little bit about that. And, uh, and, uh, Ashley's here, is gonna, is gonna keep us grounded, and she's gonna talk about all the world events that are going on. Because if Ashley wasn't here, we'd probably just talk about 9/11 the entire time, and that might still happen. We're definitely going

4:44 to get into Donald Trump giving you money, but we're going to try to get into some world events as well. Donald Jeffries, 9/11. I know you've been doing this all weekend already, but here for America Unplugged. Tell the people what's up. Well, first of all, in the chat, can you all come up with something more complimentary than Stevie Wonder or the Unabomber? I mean, come on, that's what they're calling me. They came and I look like that. I mean, I think I look cooler than that. Geez. But I had an eye injury. It's, it's getting better, but I just didn't want people to see this, uh, the scar. I just got stitched out today, just for, for those of you that care. I, I'm not slowing down enough for my age exercising, so the real lies. Cyclops from X-Men. Okay, well, I guess a little better, I guess, a superhero. That's true. Okay, that's cool. Yeah, I always kind of admired him. We couldn't— he had to keep the shades on to avoid blasting everybody. So I don't have that issue.

6:02 But, um, but I think, you know, can we look at— so when I, you know, people were arguing with me a lot on, uh, online because, I mean, I stress things like when I looked at the NIST report, again, not a conspiracy theory, this is the government's own report. I found that they determined that the first person jumped from the building, uh, from one of the towers, uh, 4 minutes after the first plane struck. And of course, I— that just seems impossible for me to believe. But people assured me, well, you know, I said, I'm just saying that stood out to me. I don't know, that doesn't make sense to me. Whatever it means, I don't know. But then I think it raises questions. A lot of us raise questions about the jumpers too. We're suspicious of that many people jumping and they stop showing them and all that. Most people don't look at that kind of stuff, you know, but I do. And, uh, the other story I stress is maybe even more ridiculous, but it's a clear lie. And that was the— they kept reporting on social media over and over again, these 2 women, a heartbreaking story.

6:55 They had flown together their entire lives and they always sat next to each other on the plane, but on 9/11 they were unable to get a seat together. Now, at the same time, they're telling you all of the airliners were, you know, half or more empty. So that's an absolute lie. That's, you know, you think we think can't prove— we can prove that's a lie. So why were you reporting that? Why were you coming up with a heart, you know, tugging, heartstrings-tugging story that you know is bullshit? So those are the kind of things I look for that then you realize how deep this rabbit hole goes. So, and of course we can— I've heard people now that it's kind of like the, uh, the, uh, you know, the people, uh, you know, walking back everything. Like in the JFK assassination, they actually kept saying, well, we actually had more than 6 seconds and all kinds of nonsense. But now we have people arguing with you, well, The steel didn't actually have to reach that temperature to melt. It's like, okay, well, that's what the science you worship says it has to meet, you know. And, uh, so this is the kind of stuff we face.

7:56 And, and the Islam did it, you know, the entire thing. So all of Islam did it. I said, can we say Judaism did it? And, and when you show pictures of the, uh, genocide in Gaza, what do you mean Islam did it? I thought it was the tallest Arab in the world, Osama bin Laden specifically. I thought it was al-Qaeda, and then I don't know what they changed it to. I mean, they've changed it to several things, and we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq because of it. And I'm surprised they're just not blaming it on Iran now. It's stupid. It's dumb thinking Islam did it. The entire right is doing this, showing one— the same jumper, all, you know, the ledge jumper, one body falling and saying Islam did this. No, you're— they didn't. If any, you know, you can say the dancing Israelis, you might focus on them. There's more evidence for that.

8:42 But your government did this. It was an inside job. So, uh, that's what I've been saying. Most people don't argue with me because there is no argument. But, uh, it's, it's a shame that there's that many people that said— but again, it's because the right is completely sold now on this, uh, this new war on terror, although now it's a war on Islam. And it's really— it's, it just— it's because so much, as I showed in my Substack, so much— we crossed the line. I think that's when we became America 2.0. Uh, on 9/11, uh, you know, we passed the Patriot Act, which eviscerated our civil liberties. Uh, we, uh, created the Homeland Security Department, which no one questions anymore. We somehow, we got along fine without it for 200 and some years, but now we have to have it. And it made, you know, I worked with a guy named Muhammad at the time. He was terrified.

9:31 He, I was trying to help him figure out a way to change his name to Matthew. Because he said, how could I change my name? Because anybody named Muhammad was suspect. And, uh, it was a terrible time. All the waterboarding that went on, all the torture. And remember the pictures at Gitmo and, um, uh, what's the other place, Guantanamo Bay, with the, the Iraqi male Iraqis with light bulbs stuck up their butts and the smiling female soldier, very pretty, but, you know, smiling next to him like she's just giddy over it. Can't forget all that. Not to mention, you know, Julian Assange was created basically because 9/11. So was Manning. I mean, they're the ones that published the photos of the awful things they were doing, not just the prisoners, but killing, you know, shooting dogs for sport, playing soccer with decapitated heads, urinating on corpses, raping constantly, as our soldiers have been known to do since the Civil War at least. So we have to— we can't forget all that stuff, but somehow it becomes Islam. That's got— even if Islam did it What are we doing all that stuff for?

10:33 And again, I just resent that it's, it's, it's such a stupid— it's, it's even dumber than the '50s when they said the communists did it. Where— but I guess it's at that level. But that's where we are now. The only argument they have, like when I'm trying to talk facts, is Islam did it. It's like, okay, how do I argue with that? That's it. So every person that's Islam— and, and that's a new thing, you know. They used to say terrorists. They don't— they used— before Islam, the only time you heard that was the Nation of Islam with Farrakhan. But it's, it's now, it's no more, not even Muslims necessarily. It's terror— it's, we're terrorists. Islam did it. And I, I just, I resent the stupidity of the argument. And, uh, but you know, I'm used to being a thought criminal, so I'll, I'll take my lumps on there dealing with these people.

11:16 Ashley, what are your thoughts on September 11th and, uh, everything that Don said, or whatever you want to add? Well, I will say that this was This— of course I remember where I was that day. It was such an impactful time. And Don's right, everything changed after that. Like, everything changed after that. And, um, I can't imagine being Billy, a New Yorker, and having the involvement that you had that day, because of course, in my opinion, it was trauma for the entire country, but it was worse for people that were there. And of course that lost loved ones and that had family members that were involved in the rescue crews, that people didn't care about them. They said the air is safe to breathe, and then they get cancers and they don't get the treatment and the care that they deserve, the financial help, all of these things. So it's a horribly traumatic event for the entire country.

12:14 And to Don's point, it— this is true. This was when people were all about It was the Muslims. You're exactly right about that. And then look at the fallout. And then speaking of that, we may touch on some of the geopolitical events that we're seeing to this day. These areas, a lot of these areas were destabilized. I mean, they maybe they already had been meddled with and intervention had happened there. Obviously, we know about the United States and coups in Iran. And so it's not new. But we're still dealing with the fallout of the destabilization that took place in the Middle East from the United States and, you know, the UK and the other countries that were in on that to this day, 25 years later. So, um, the implications are still with us in so many different ways. It's such a horrendous tragedy. And yeah, Don also brought up a great point with where putting the spotlight on torturing people. Some of those people are still being held.

13:20 They're still in Guantanamo. I mean, we're talking no, no legal representation, even if people are trying to help them. This, this allowed them to say, to start the banner of terrorist. If you're a terrorist, then you— that's all we have to say, and you essentially have no rights, and we can just lock you in a cage and throw you away, and you're not getting your day in court. So the implications are absolutely huge. It's one of, uh, the greatest tragedies in American history, of course. And, um, it's just so many different issues touch that day, right? I totally agree, man. Uh, it's, it's, it's, it's something that I'll carry with me the rest of my life.

14:04 Um, I remember when, when I first thought that there was something wrong It was during the birth of my first child, and it was days before 9/11, and I didn't want to leave, but I was like, I got to do something, you know. So I went out to Ground Zero, and I started giving out pamphlets. That was my first method of activism. For 9/11, you know, and I did that, you know, just because it meant so much to me at the time, and my son was days old, you know, but I was like, I have to— in my mind at that time, I'm like, I have to do this, you know, and even for my son moving forward, because it's like, it's— this is meaningful.

14:55 I think the 9/11 Truth Movement, while it had good intentions in the beginning, Uh, has been, uh, infiltrated and, uh, desecrated. And I'm gonna tell you now, it's dead, okay? 9/11 truth movement is dead. There was a conference here yesterday of 20, 25 years. Um, it's been the last few days actually. I think it's still going on now, you know, Richard Gage and, uh, um, I know, uh Chris Graves is there today. Yep, Chris Graves. Oh, he's— hey, he traveled there. He's gonna see it too. The guys from, uh, what is it, Pink Floyd? Forget it.

15:39 Yeah, Roger Waters. Jimmy Stewart. Yeah, this is ultimately a get-together for people that are like-minded, that can think of it. It's still a very niche portion of society. Um, that holds the— that hold these beliefs to the degree that they do. Because you can talk to the random person on the street and tell them, hey, what do you think about 9/11? Be like, yo, there's something suspicious about 9/11. Or people that were living at the time, because you ask after a certain age, you know, they have no idea. So it's being forgotten in that manner, right? But so people of a certain age that lived through this, they'll tell you, yeah, there's something very suspicious, but they can't get into points, you know, they can't get into a deep discussion about what happened. They're like, yeah, something suspicious, probably the government, probably George Bush, peace, and keep walking. Nothing's gonna happen. There's no, there's no accountability.

16:36 There's no real, no real push for something, uh, for accountability. And who are you going to hold accountable at this point, you know? So, so this is, this has gone the way of JFK, which we knew long ago it was going to happen, but, but, uh Did we want to admit that to ourselves is a different story, at least for me, right? Um, they have all types of specials on JFK and everybody talks whatever, but no one is ever held accountable for anything, right? This is what 9/11 is going to become now. It has become, in my opinion. Um, not, not to mention that yesterday, what was most ironic to me is that there was a Charlie Kirk, um, uh, tribute of sorts, uh, involved with the 25-year anniversary of 9/11. And I don't understand why that's a thing. I don't understand why that's a thing.

17:31 These are 2 different issues. We, we, we should not involve, uh, Charlie Kirk in true honest investigation on 9/11. We, we should not do it. Additionally, um, the event was held in El Museo del Barrio, right? That's the, the Museum of, of the Neighborhood. El Barrio is, is the name that it was given. It's in Spanish Harlem, uh, by the Puerto Rican, uh, people that, that lived there in, in the '60s, the '70s, the '80s, you know, the, um, uh, that made that area what it is. And there's still, uh, a big Latino presence in that area, and to have a tribute to Charlie Kirk held in that building was mind-blowing to me. You know, I'm sure, um, the people from, um, the museum didn't know that that was going to go on, you know, but I was like, you know, because Charlie Kirk pushed a lot of, uh, um, Great Replacement Theory, uh, anti-immigration, everybody needs to go, you know, that type of thing. So, um, I'm, I'm— I wasn't a big fan of, of that aspect of it, right? So, uh, but additionally to that, I don't think 9/11 should be, um, mixed in with COVID or anything like that. And that's what Richard Gage does.

19:00 He, he mixes it in with COVID and tries to draw parallels. I We want to find out what happened on 9/11, legit questions about that event. Muddying it up with other things only discredits you in the eyes of the mainstream. And ultimately, all the mainstream doesn't matter, then why are we having this movement if we're just going to talk about amongst ourselves, right? This movement is supposed to spill over to the mainstream in order to make a difference, but we are handing them tools to say, nope, we're not even messing with you from the get. Because you're, you're involving all this other stuff that is easily disprovable, that most people there have no idea what they're talking about, you know. So that's, that's another area that I have that's a problem.

19:42 But in retrospect, looking back, and I, I still have some suspicions on 9/11, but there are a lot of things that are easily disproven from conspiracy culture, like Don mentioned. That they were walking some things back and saying, well, uh, steel beams, you know, because the whole thing was that, uh, I think, uh, fires couldn't melt the steel, but it can weaken them according to the NIST report, right? This is according to NIST. I don't know, find better evidence. And this is what at least Richard Gage is trying to do, that which I can commend him for, you know. But, but, uh, the standard science, uh, says that they can be weakened And that can cause a collapse.

20:23 There was also the, the burst of, uh, that looked like explosions when the tower was coming down. There was like little explosions. And I looked at that when I was, when I was first introduced to 9/11, and I was like, holy shit, there were legit explosives there. Well, that can be explained away by air pressure and everything just coming down, bursting things out. Makes sense to me. You know, these are things that can easily be explained away. And I think we spend a lot of time on this instead of looking at how did these hijackers— how were they allowed to come and train here in the United States? How was Mohammed Atta allowed to, to, to take flight, uh, uh, uh, training here in the United— along with some others? I don't know the specifics of all their names, but in Florida they were, they were taking, uh, flight training and they were being observed. They, they knew these people were who they were, but how was this allowed to happen?

21:21 How were they allowed to come into the country? These are more legit questions, I think. Um, and then we get into Building 7, you know, and that's, that's the one that gets me more than anything else because it's like, no planes hit that building, right? And the standard belief goes that no steel building of that you know, a skyscraper like that had ever collapsed due to fires before or since, right? And that's true to a degree, to a degree. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna show you a couple of things here. Uh, let me see if I can share my screen. Can I share my screen?

22:02 Why can't I share my screen? Here we go. This is going slowly. Bang. All right, bear with me here. So This is— hold on, I gotta get my iPad up. Boom. All right, this is, uh, the Plasco building in Tehran, January 19th, 2017. It's a 16-story steel-framed tower, um, that was hit by a plane and it collapsed in 3 hours due to fires. So this happened in, in 2019. Now granted, um, and this is me and this is my own speculation, my own, you know, uh, doubts about things, this isn't as big as World Trade Center 7. It's a smaller, a smaller building. Uh, World Trade Center 7 was, I think, 47 stories.

22:57 Um, but this is another instance of fires bringing down a tower. Bringing down a skyscraper due to, due to fires. All right, and we got another one. This one, uh, was a massive high-rise fire caused the building to collapse. It's called the, the Wilton Paez Building in São Paulo, May 1st, 2018. It was a high-rise with reinforced concrete, a reinforced concrete structure. Now granted, this was a different, uh, structure. It was a different type of build. So it's, it's, uh, it's a lesser example than the previous one. The Tehran one is compelling, right? It shows that this can happen and had— has happened since, although it's not to the same degree as World Trade Center 7. I'm very suspicious about World Trade Center 7 myself. Um, this is the article that got me into all of this.

23:57 Hijack suspect alive and well. Um, and I, I found it while I was looking up some stuff to show you guys, and, and it just brought me back, so I figured I'd show you. Um, this has been disputed at this point. There was a retraction by the BBC. Um, and, uh, this could have been— this is a reporting early on, uh, in a mixed up— a mix-up of names for— from some uh, pilots, um, in the Middle East that, that shared the same name, but they were different people. That's, that's how it was reported. But this was what did it for me because it was reported by the BBC. So I was like, there's something to that, there's some, some teeth to it, although it could be explained away. Um, yesterday I listened to an episode that, uh, Wheezy did with James Corby. I'm— I don't know much about James Corbett. I know who he is clearly, but I don't listen too much. Um, it was an excellent episode. Wheezy did a great job at— Wheezy's an excellent broadcaster in my opinion, you know. So he did it, he did a great job at running the show, and, and they asked legit questions. I had some issues with some, some, some stuff, but Corbett did make sense on a lot of things. Um, regardless, they got into the passport.

25:18 Um, uh, that was found at, uh, at— what is it— when, uh, in the debris, I think it was around the sidewalk here in New York City. Uh, it was— it wasn't Mohammed Atta's passport, it was somebody else's passport, another, uh, hijacker. I got his name here somewhere, I'll give it to you. Um, but it was found on the street and it was picked up by a, by a passerby. By somebody that was walking and handed it to Bernard Kerik, who was the chief of police in New York City. Of course, he turned out to be a prominent, uh, uh, person in MAGA later on because of Rudolph Giuliani, uh, who, who just now got exposed to letting people go down into Ground Zero, uh, knowing that the air was unsafe to breathe.

26:06 And we've known this here in the conspiracy circles for a long time. Christy Todd Whitman and what, what happened there with New Jersey. You know, and what she said, the air was safe to breathe. Um, but, uh, Rudolph Giuliani knew, and all the administrations prior refused— I mean, uh, um, after Giuliani refused to release these documents, you know who did? Uh, Zoran Momdani, the Muslim that you guys don't want. And when I'm saying you guys, I'm talking generalities here, that you guys don't want to, uh, be down in Ground Zero just because he's Muslim. Them. That going back to another point that Don made, the Muslims, the Muslims, the Muslims. Well, Mom Donnie released all those documents for everybody to see, you know. Um, so, so there's that.

26:48 So, um, so that passport was handed to Bernard Kerik. Bernard Kerik is a very sketchy individual. Um, but it's, it's very hard to believe that something like that could happen, right? It's, it's hard to believe that a passport can survive all of that now. Apparently it, it was— I don't know how they would know this, but it was, it, it was most probably ejected after, before the, before it hit the building, they said. But either way, the passport survived. And it's, it's, it looks highly unlikely, but here is, uh, an example of— and let me go back to the main screen— here is an example of a passport surviving a plane hitting a building and fires breaking out. Hold on, I got this written down here. Air India Flight 171 in 2025, uh, the air— an aircraft hit this, uh, this building. It was a medical college building, and, uh, old passports did survive.

27:53 They found, uh, passports of, of people, um, that were on the crash. Here it says it, uh including clothes, passports, wallets, photographs, an Air India spokesperson told the India Express. So it's, it's not out of the realm of possibility that this would happen, right? Hold on for a second, I got a couple more and then I'll let you talk, Doc. Hold on, hold on. Boom, we did this, we did this, we did this, we did this, and now we're gonna do this one. Okay, so Not only do we have that, that example, also, um, a Malaysia Airlines flight, uh, what is it, MH17, in the Ukraine in 2014. There was, uh, luggage and passports that were recovered. But I think more relevant to the argument here is, um, United Airlines Flight 93, Pennsylvania, 2001. Now we all know that, uh, directly connect— connected to 9/11. Other passports were recovered there of 2 other hijackers, uh, Zaid Jarrah and, uh, I'm butchering these names, Saeed al-Hamdi.

29:02 Their passports were recovered. Now I know what you will say because this is what I said: well, they were hijackers, so it's convenient for those passports to be recovered in order to hold up the official story. Um, well, there was another passport recovered of, uh, of a passenger. His name was Toshiya Kuji, uh, Flight 93 passenger. His passport was also recovered. He, he was, uh, headed home to Japan on Flight 93 after vacationing in the United States and Canada, you know. And that, uh, passport was on display here in New York. Um, I don't know if it's still on display. Here's the, the path— the, the case where the passport was in. If it is, I want to go see it.

29:46 I'd like to go see it. And now we can argue that all of this was planted, um, but we are going to have a hard time proving that, right? It's, it's all speculation at this point. So I, I would think that the best course of action is to concentrate on what we can prove or what we can reasonably push back on. And, and, and the, the passport thing is something we can reasonably push back on, but we'll never get to the bottom of it. We should talk about how these guys got into the country, how these guys were able to fly these planes, how box cutters were able to make it through security. We should look at stuff like that. Uh, the stand down, you know, um, order that was given. We should look at stuff like that, you know. And, and of course, Building 7 still seems incredibly sus to me, although, um, there are examples of, of, uh steel buildings collapsing due to fires after that, you know. So, uh, I just, I just wanted to inject that into the conversation here.

30:49 We need to be honest about these things, and, and we need to be willing to be wrong about these things. Just because you hold these truths or these beliefs, uh, close to your heart— and, and this was my existence for years and years and years— it doesn't make you right. You need to be willing to accept the evidence wherever it is and wherever it takes you, right? And, and say, okay, so maybe I have to reevaluate my position on some of these things. That doesn't mean that the official story of 9/11 is 100% concrete. I still have questions about a lot of it, right? Uh, and I, I laid out some of it here. But it does mean that, um, it could mean that a lot of the stuff— and well-meaning, I think the guys from Loose Change were well-meaning— but a lot of that stuff, you know, could be either disproven or will just lead us down another path, you know. Um, I, I remember James Fletcher telling me live on air, he was like, I, I wouldn't put too much stock on the family members of 9/11 that are out there crying.

31:49 They might be actors. Like, um, and I, I don't— I, I can't, I can't co-sign that. I'm sorry. And that was one of the, one of the steps that— one of the knocks in the head that took me to another level. I'm like, well, this guy's thinking this, then what else is he wrong about? And I kept going, uh, and going and going. But, but, uh, there are some examples of this, just saying. Don Jeffrey's reactions. I don't know where to begin, Bill. You, you remind me of a lot of people I've known in the JFK research community who became what I call neocons, who, uh, suddenly started questioning, just like you're doing, questioning all these things, saying, well, it's possible, maybe, you know, who knows, maybe it's possible. I don't know where you're getting it from, but in terms of Muhammad Atta If you know American Memory Hole, I published the fact that his father— maybe his father's a liar, maybe he's an actor too— his father, uh, went on German television and talked about speaking to his son Mohammed Atta after 9/11, who was hiding out and claiming that the Mossad was trying to frame him.

32:47 American media ignored him. No one talked to him. So I don't know, maybe what was that about? I, I think when you concentrate on the hijackers, you're concentrating on, uh, the patsies, the fakeness of it. I don't think there were hijackers. Most people that— and whether, you know, I— you've got Judy Wood and all these people, you got theories just like you have in JFK because it wasn't investigated. The 9/11 Commission was like the Warren Commission. I talked to Scott, uh, that's the guy's name, Foreman, I think his name was, but who worked inside 9/11. He fled to England out of fear because they weren't there that day, but they had seen all the stuff going on in the weeks leading up, the mysterious power outages the disabling of the security cameras. And after it happened, he tried to go to the NYPD, the New York Port Authority, the FBI, and finally the 9/11 Commission. Nobody wanted to hear him. He worked— nobody knew firsthand more better than he did. Yet when the 9/11 Commission report came out, they said there were no power outages, there were no, uh— and it wasn't just him, tons of other people talked about it. Over 150 firefighters alone talked about very detailed evidence of explosions. That's just firefighters alone. There's no question.

33:58 We have early reports in the media of a truck parked at the base of the building that has explosives in it. As R.B. Hamm, uh, is on my show yesterday, talked about, there was a van driving around on 9/11 with a mural that showed exactly what happened of a plane going into the World Trade Center. I mean, I don't know what that means. But again, it's— there's video of it. It's there. It means something. So, uh, as far as Building 7, we know Barry Jennings was in there, reported explosions. He died mysteriously like so many others in 9/11. His family disappeared. Dylan Avery of Loose Change told me that the private detective he hired to try to locate his family told him, never contact me again. The real conspiratorial X-Files type of style. This is very, very deep. I mean, like I said, I talked about the 2 women that they made— they made lots of stories. They, they made up a name of a victim that if you look in the middle of his name, it says no more war or more war or something like that. It's ridiculous. They did so many crazy things. And in terms of the, uh, the magical passport, you know, again, everything else is pulverized but that. And as far as Flight 93, American Memory Hole, thanks to Chris Graves and Peter Seacash, did lots of great research on that.

35:14 I don't know what happened there. If they found anybody's passports, that's pretty much all they found. Because we've got the testimony of everybody there and said, you know, it didn't really look like there was a plane crash. And that's not what usually happens with plane crashes. And you have, you know, the county coroner, uh, that, uh, lied constantly, told like 5 different stories. They're all in my book. DV Kidd, who did some great research there, was on my podcast a while back, tried to corner him. He didn't even write up an official report on it. Uh, this— we don't know what happened. We know, we know Let's Roll didn't happen. We know that somebody didn't call there. We played yesterday on the show the Peter Jennings interview with the mother of, uh, Todd Bingham, uh, that, uh, that said hi, you know, said he called her and said, hi, Mom, this is Todd Bingham, your son. Nobody does that.

36:01 She's laughing audibly during the interview. This is not a conspiracy theory. You can see as it happens. That's why people talk about crisis actors. It doesn't make sense. People don't act that way. She's full of— she's not upset at all. I mean, it makes no sense if you look at that. The let's roll thing was what became the trademark of this. Because it made it say— and again, got Americans' patriot fervor up. Yeah, let's roll! They took that down. So they ignored the fact that these planes flew around for almost an hour and a half, and the, the— our defense system, if they did anything at all, they shot down Flight 93 over Pennsylvania and lied about it. If they did anything at all. I don't even know if they did that. But, uh, and Dick Cheney would later say we did that, you know, but we don't know.

36:44 The mayor of Cleveland talked about Flight 93. He gave very detailed testimony. About Flight 93 landing at an emergency landing in Cleveland's airport because of a bomb threat. How do you make a mistake like that? It's absolutely impossible. The, the— all the phone calls were suspect. They would later, you know, afterwards say no, they couldn't have actually made those phone calls, that you had people doing that allegedly in these dramatic phone calls, including the let's roll thing. None of it makes any sense. And then you have the Pentagon, where the— whatever hit that Pentagon It sure wasn't Flight 77 because there's no sign of the airplane anywhere except for tiny bit of debris outside. And that wasn't there initially because Fox News reporter Jamie McIntyre, who I tried to contact, of course never answered me initially in his live report, said, you know, I, I don't see any signs of a plane here. There's no debris outside at all. And there wasn't. Later they planted a few things, I think. But, uh, where was the plane?

37:42 And the hole is way too small. Again, they've had people going back to 2001, the late great Jack White, who doesn't get any credit for this. He was a great photo analyst. He superimposed the plane against the hole. It's not even near wide enough. And then you have to account for the wings. What happened to the wings? If they got sheared off, they should have been outside. If they went into the building somehow, there should have been an impact point. You should have seen like an old Warner Brothers cartoon. You should have— should impact from the wings. You don't see either one. The plane just dissolved into nothingness. That doesn't happen. And so you had originally people like April Gallup, the whistleblower that worked there, that tried to sue Dick Cheney and everything and said nothing. There's no evidence of anything. I saw nothing there. She worked inside the Pentagon.

38:25 I tried to get a hold of her. She's scared now. She's not talking. But there's so many. And what came out of this, they obviously, to give them the benefit of the doubt about anything, it's even before 9/11, you had the JFK lie, the MLK lie, the RFK lie, all the things that happened during the cleanse, the Waco lie, where we murdered American citizens in their own home. And lied about the most impeachable crime of all time, the OKC City lie. Oklahoma City. I'm contacting Tonya Yiki, who's, uh, Clarence Yiki, her husband they killed, you know, very— and I hope to get her on my show sometime. But clearly there were bombs planted in there. Every— you could— you can watch— it used to be they had early local coverage from Oklahoma City where they're talking non-stop about the bombs in the building, finding— and of course they just scrubbed that, just like the JFK Jr. case. I have the original videotape coverage where they talk about the 9:39 PM phone call over and over again, and they sent a a Coast Guard officer had to talk about it later. Oh no, that's crazy, that's conspiracy theories.

39:21 And nobody but very few people than me have that book because when they tried to get the— researchers tried to get the coverage later, they edited all references to it out. So that's what they do, they throw them down the memory hole, hence the title for my book. So, but this is— there's to be backsliding on this, there's, there's no reason. They have been proven wrong about anything, everything. If anything, we should be more digging our feet in further that, you know, that these people are rock-solid criminals. They're gangs. They're real gangsters. And all they do is commit crimes. All they do is lie and cover it up. Their jobs depend on it. This was a huge crime. It changed America. We got the Patriot Act. We got Homeland Security Department. We get free speech zones.

40:05 When you have free speech zones, that means outside of the zones you don't have free speech. And we accepted it all, and we're still sitting there. And now, basically, all those years later, you have the left, which is silent because they hate conspiracy theories, even though they should be upset because they're, you know, defaming non-white people. That usually gets them upset. But they're so antagonistic to conspiracy theories, they're just like they didn't care about Martin Luther King's death. So they don't care. They're not going to be with us. And the right is now— the mainstream right has become Islam did it. So that's where we stand now. And I With all due respect, I think Richard J. Grage is doing the best he can. In the last few years, he's gotten— you know, 10 years ago, you couldn't have gotten somebody like Roger Waters, who was, you know, Pink Floyd, one of the biggest groups in rock. And he's kind of been demonized a little bit, but that's what they're going to do. They're going to demonize anybody. Jimmy Dore is a big name. He's going to these things now. Uh, Curt Weldon, the former member of Congress, he's gone the last 2 years. Dennis Kucinich, my hero, former campaign manager for RFK Jr., who loves Rabbi Shmuley in Israel, but Dennis Kucinich is a fierce critic of Israel. Very odd choice for his presidential campaign manager.

41:12 These things are never as they look to see. So I, I think you're right, nothing is going to happen because nothing ever happens in any of these cases. But I think it's good that more people are drawing awareness to it. And as for Charlie Kirk, I think the only reason they're doing that is because it happened on September 10th. It's an assassination, and it was the talk when when I was there last year in DC, that's all they were talking about because Tucker Carlson was supposed to be the keynote speaker. I guess he wasn't going to do it anymore like that, but he was scared off after the Charlie Kirk. So it was— everybody was looking over the shoulder and, you know, kind of paranoid because of that. So I think that's— it doesn't really have anything new other than we think it's just another long thing and a lie because I think they're trying to push a ridiculous narrative now on that, as they do all the time. So I, I don't, I don't think they tell the truth about anything. I don't think that sometimes they're honest. So they're liars, they're criminals. Most of them are probably Satanists. Many of them have sold their souls that we can't even understand the depravity.

42:11 I mean, we show the Epstein files that we know of, what has been allowed to be released. These people are cannibals. They eat people. How are we going to sit there and— I mean, they show it over and over again in the things. Let's get the jerky. I'm going to walk the jerky over later in the afternoon. We're going to try to analyze them as, as normal people. They're absolutely evil. We can't even understand the extent of it. So there's nothing they wouldn't do. They would kill 3,000 people. They would pretend to kill 3,000 people. It's a big joke. They do anything they want to do. And I think all we have to do is start with that. So I don't have any theories— holograms, no planes, all that kind of stuff— but what they say happened— 19 crazed Arabs with plastic knives. I worked in a warehouse for a long time, the box cutters, and they're more powerful than plastic knives, but I, I don't think you get very many people that will allow a plane to be taken over with box cutters.

43:02 That's just ridiculous. And that's what we're supposed to believe. And we're also supposed to believe that they didn't send fighter jets up. Now they've trotted out a very good-looking woman fighter jet pilot. I don't know where she was until now, but apparently she's been promoted, her and somebody else that supposedly did come up very belatedly that day, because we've talked about golfer Payne Stewart, uh, shortly before. That happened, uh, his plane very tragically lost oxygen. Everybody died instantly. They sent, they sent up fighter jets within 15 minutes. They had almost an hour and a half here. The plane was headed for the heart of the defense system, the Pentagon, which of course had tons of security cameras then, but somehow they weren't operating this day. American Memory, I want to talk about— they were doing work just like they are with Sandy Hook and everything else. The cameras are never working. Charlie Kirk, all those people there everybody with cell phones. Why aren't we seeing the cell phone videos so we have the, the whatever happened from 10, 100 different angles? We don't have that.

43:58 Somehow the people during these events, they just all put their cell phones away. It's amazing. So that's why we ask these kinds of questions. But I, I, I think to me there's— I will never backtrack on any of these conspiracies. I'm becoming more and more radical about them as they go on, because if anything, my opinion of these people is now that I know they're cannibals I, I don't know what else they can be beyond that. I mean, you can't get much worse than that. But, uh, so I, I have no hesitation in, in calling it. But I, I think that, uh, if we, if we give an inch here and just say, well, maybe that happened— no, because they're, they're lying about everything. The entire thing's a lie. They didn't throw a little bit of truth in there. And I think if we just concentrate on just the hijackers, then it's just like with JFK assassination concentrating on the mafia, you know. That's a that's a fallback option for that. You know, I didn't, I didn't say just the hijackers, uh, no, but you said like look at how the hijackers got it because I think, I think that's the more of a more viable way to go about this.

44:57 Regardless, I just want to get Ashley in here real quick. Uh, Ashley, give me your thoughts just because we're— time flew today, my apologies. Done. Go ahead. You know, as far as like chiming in on this specific issue, this is not the one that I have done the most looking into, right? I think that this conversation is good though, it's healthy to have these discussions. And I do think that there's a lot of things that don't make sense. And the thing that I look at the most is what was able to happen based on this event. It was decades-long war in the Middle East. It was the removal of Saddam Hussein as the leader in Iraq when we had already been to war with them. Back in the early, uh, early '90s. So it was a complete destabilization further in the Middle East. So that's one of the things that I kind of look at is like, what was the actual fallout? What was not— what was done under the name of that and that we are still dealing with today? Um, I think that both of you brought up great points, and I do think that it's okay if Billy wants to focus on, okay, but what is actually provable? That's where, you know, his line of thinking— I mean, and not to speak for him, but it's like, what is provable right now?

46:23 And then have maybe another category of like, what is speculation but we can never prove? And then I understand where Don's coming from. These things don't make sense. There's so many things that make no sense. So I think this is a good robust discussion on this topic from people that are coming at it from different perspectives, but ultimately I think we all can agree that there's a lot that makes no sense, and there was a devastating fallout from this event from our government in the name of fighting terrorists. All right, all right. So let me, let me, uh, give my thoughts on a couple of these things. Now, I, I specifically said that I still have questions on this event. I don't think that anything that I presented was out of the realm of the ordinary or offensive or, or anything like that, you know, for— or, or a backpedal, Don. It's evidence.

47:18 It is evidence that is out there, and I am presenting it. It's not a backpedal. I am accepting the evidence that is out there, just like you accept cannibalism, although you cannot back that up. There is no evidence of that, but you accept it because— hold on, I, I let you speak for about 20 minutes or something. So, so, um, there is no evidence of cannibalism, no real evidence. There's a lot of speculation and things that we're reading into things, right? So there's that, and there's the, the digging your feet down and getting even more radical and more radical. We cannot, if we seek to have an honest and truthful and, and a productive investigation on things like, like September 11th. We cannot associate ourselves with, ah, these people are drinking adrenochrome and they're, they're cannibals and all of this shit unless we can prove it, and we can't. So I would like to separate the 9/11 discussion is what I would like to do, separate it. And when evidence that, that, um, is contrary to what we've been taught in the alternative media presents itself, we should evaluate it.

48:34 And if it makes sense, we should accept it. And saying that things don't make sense don't make them a fact of whatever you were thinking in your mind. They just don't make sense, and they don't make sense for a reason— because we don't understand them. We have to try to understand the things that don't make sense. Not jump to wild speculation just because they don't make sense. We try to fill in the gaps of things that don't make sense for us. So it— this doesn't make sense, therefore it has to be this and it can't be anything else. And that's the problem with the alt media, and that's the problem with what has happened a lot in, uh, in September 11th lore, you know. So, uh, that's my issue with it. Um, I don't think anything that I presented was, was wrong, or, or I don't know, anti-9/11 conspiracy or anything like that. I want to prove what's going on here, and I want to do it in a fact-based, evidence-based manner. And there, there is evidence here that I've proven that other things that people are like, how can it happen? It's happened before, reportedly. Unless there's one big world conspiracy where all this evidence is planted in different um, different, uh, events to, to have somebody that is actually digging come up with that evidence and say, oh, look, look, look what's happening here. And I, I don't view the world in that fashion.

49:58 Also, uh, one thing, and then I'll, I'll let you guys go and we'll wrap up. You— and this is what I mean about, about evidence that you want to believe. You talk about a van that R.B. Hamm was talking about. That was a— it was a white van. There was no freaking drawings on it. That was taken out of context. It was a mural. We had the video on yesterday. On my show. Video? What video of what? What video of the van? Somebody took a picture of it that day. That it, it was changed after time, uh, for people that wanted to. And of course, because you, you laugh because you want, you want that to be real. You want that van to be true. You want that mural to be a thing. It is not.

50:39 And, and, and because it, because it, it got turned by conspiracy circles into a thing at one point then that, that fits your worldview, so you want to accept it and you want, you want to buy it in. I am not about that. I am about what makes sense, what's real. I don't care if it fits my worldview. I don't care. I want, I want to know the truth. That's what the truth movement is supposed to be about, and that's what I would challenge everybody else to, to try to do. It is very difficult. I'm not the best at it. I'm not even close to being the best at it. I'm just sharing here. What I found. So I— all the visceral reactions that I'm getting from this is incredible to me when I am just pointing out that, hey, other passports have been found in other wreckages similar to what happened. Look, other steel buildings have fallen. It's— they're facts. You don't want to accept them, that's fine, but you don't want to accept the facts and you're not honestly moving towards the quote-unquote truth. That's just the way I'm, I'm coming about it. All right, Don Jeffries, Ashley, and then we're getting out of here. What's up? Yeah, just, just real quick, but you know, because you're talking about evidence. And, and this is, again, I've heard this all my life from JFK assassins. It's the exact same talking points I've heard over and over again. Where's the evidence? There's no evidence of this.

51:54 The problem is the official stories have— there's no evidence for the official stories. There's nothing. No, there isn't. You don't want to accept it. And some of the things I don't want to accept, and I'm willing to say that, but there is actual evidence that things are true. Not the entire official story is nonsense. You— because the NIST report, a lot of the things in there are true and correct and factual. Well, you can always find things. That's why I found about the jumpers. But I'm saying that in terms of the, the overriding thing, that 19 crazed Arabs with box cutters and plastic knives were able to take over 3 different airliners, and that they flew around for an hour and a half, uh, in, uh, for almost an hour and a half, or the greatest defense system the world's ever known didn't do anything when they sent fighter jets up with just a few months before with Payne Stewart. They did nothing. The Pentagon cameras weren't working. Again, these— this is all there. They have to prove— if they were in court, they have to prove something happened. And we can raise doubts, to put it mildly, about everything they claim. Yeah, I, I don't speculate. I'm not telling you who I think— I thought the dancing Israelis are interesting, the Israeli art students. I'm not saying I know exactly who did it.

53:03 Donald Trump's— uh, Rumsfeld's, uh, $2 trillion missing from the Pentagon the day before is interesting. All those things should be investigated. But again, is this— the idea is that it shouldn't be. And people are going to speculate from the JFK assassination on because we don't have an honest media. If we had a real honest media, talk to Muhammad Ali's father. That brings down your story right there. If he was at— he was obviously didn't survive that. How was he alive the next day? They didn't care. They weren't interested. They called it a conspiracy theory. Apparently his father is a conspiracy theorist say it. So that's the kind of thing— nothing is ever— it's left to us. None of us are professional journalists, but most of us citizen journalists do a much better job than these guys do because there's no investigating going on from the JFK assassination on.

53:51 They never ask the questions. They ever ask the questions here? All this stuff has been brought up by people online and in a few books because you didn't— people were already not reading books after 9/11 like they did the JFK assassination. But that's all I'm saying is that the official case is lacking. If they can try to prove that, that some of the things we said is not true, well, it certainly is possible that everything that's said is not true. The holograms and the no planes— I'm not saying I, that I can prove that or believe it, but I'm just saying that these were, these were developed as a result of the official story being ridiculous, as they always are. It's not like they Every time they come up with— all you have to do is scratch the surface. So I've, I've written 3 books of hidden history now, and as I've said, I'm still trying to find one incident in history that ever took place that they didn't lie about. I haven't done it yet. And something this big, there's no way they told the truth about this. This transformed America, eviscerated our civil liberties, and created a non-ending war on terror, which makes no sense.

54:54 What is terror? I don't— it's absolutely ridiculous. All right, Ashley, closing thoughts. I have cat interference over here today, but, um, yeah, I don't know. This is a lot of food for thought. I kind of said it earlier though, I think that it was a good discussion, and I don't get upset by either of the things that you guys say. I just think about it, mull it over, and try to um, you know, come up with my own thoughts about things. And I think some good questions have been asked here today and good points have been made. So thank you for allowing me to be on the show today. Thank you for filling in for Tony. We appreciate you. Uh, somebody in the chat, uh, asked what towers, uh, what steel buildings fell.

55:40 Um, I, I discussed this in the beginning. I went through it and here it is. So I put it back up for you in, in Tehran. And then White Wolf Yo, White Wolf, what's up? White Wolf, how you doing? Listen, um, this isn't a discussion on the 3, uh, uh, apparitions of, of Fatima, all right? Know your role, stay in your lane, okay? Don't, don't, don't come— he's like, oh, you don't know what caused the, the collapse in Tehran, and you know what caused the collapse of the World Trade Centers, I'm assuming, right? Like, come And this is what I mean. This is what is doubling and tripling down on, on nonsense, you know, that there's nonsense that you know absolutely nothing about. And that's the thing, like citizen journalists— I'm not saying people shouldn't look into what they, what they, what they, you know, what the stories are, but a lot of, a lot of these citizen journalists, quote unquote, is just straight trash.

56:31 And I've been trying to tell you this, this for some time right now in the alt media. They're, they're probably leading you up a road because, uh, like, uh, um, Twisted says, you know, people say a lot of things. They say it, but they rarely prove anything. They just go on their feelings and their intuitions and their hunches and let's ask questions. And then you make claims that you cannot prove, and you turn around and tell them, well, you need to prove your claim. They present evidence, you don't accept it. So prove your claim. Prove your claims. And you have not. You have not been able to do it. And, and the majority of the alt media has not been able to do it. I give kudos to Richard Gage for at least trying to it.

57:14 But there are tons of people that push back against that scientifically, and people will be like, oh, well, they're, they're, uh, stooges, or they're, they're whatever, they're with the CIA. Ultimately, you're not an architect and you're not an engineer. So that's why I always fell back from that conversation whenever they asked me about the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center. I'm like, listen, I am not an architect, I'm not an engineer. Go talk to, uh, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. They'll be able to talk to you about that. And this was very early on in my journey when I was doing activism, when, when most of you people that are talking crap in the chat were sitting in your living rooms picking your ass looking at freaking whomever was telling you lies about September 11th. I was out there freaking trying to make a difference every year, right?

57:58 So don't give me the bullshit. Anyway, we're getting up out of here. I'm sorry we couldn't get to the $5,000. I bet you White Wolf, I bet you you're gonna be waiting for those $5,000 in your account. I bet you you're sitting down praying to Fatima. I'm like, please give me the $5,000. It's not showing up, just like the rest of the crap you believe. Anyway, we're getting up out of here. Don Jeffries, tell the people where they can find you. Uh, if I'm on Substack, donaldjeffries.substack.com. I protest. I just wrote about this a couple days ago. All— you find me on Twitter. I'm not being, uh, banned at this moment, @donjeffries. Fantastic. Are you doing any shows tonight? I don't— I think, uh, Orbee Ham gave me the night off. I haven't heard, so I don't think so. If I do, it would be the sunglasses on, so I don't know. Hopefully these will be retired by next week, so we'll see. Hey, Don, Don, talk to your people. Talk to your people. Don, Don, you know me.

58:53 You, you've known me for what, 12? No, I, I would never call you controlled up, but I, I just say we disagree wildly. That's not the point. Am I controlled opposition? No, I don't think you're in charge of this. But I've been— again, again, they, they— what they're seeing, I think, is a, um, a trend towards where if this continues another year or two, you may say that you believe 9/11. That's what they're seeing, is a challenge to their core beliefs, and they can't handle it. That's what they're seeing. People that say stuff like that— I'm not saying everybody can't handle it, but people that say stuff like that— I'm not controlled opposition. I'm in my freaking kitchen. If I was controlled opposition, at least I can get some money out of this. It'd be nice, right?

59:35 But now if you do— if you do get— start getting money all of a sudden, then that's what people are definitely going to think, that I'll suddenly come into a lot of money. If I start getting money, I'm gonna split it with you. So, so you would be controlled. Yeah, yeah, just giving you a heads up. Ashley, tell the people where they can find you. They can find me over on my Linktree page, which is Linktree Think Change Repeat. And you can find the links to my Think Change Repeat podcast, which by the way, I had the America Unplugged hat trick. This was unintentional, but I had Don Jeffries, Billy Ray Valentine, and Tony Ardiburn 3 weeks in a row. So that was pretty cool. And then you can also find links to my, um, kind of hidden history and a little bit of woo show that I do with my friend Sean called Fool Me Twice. And last night we had some fun and we talked about cryptids. So it's a little bit— there's a lot there, but please feel free to, uh, check that out. Thank you.

1:00:31 Fantastic. My name is Billy Ray Valentine, Gorilla Underground. I don't think I'll be going live tomorrow, but I am producing an episode. I got a, uh, an interview coming up, um, as we seek to, uh, do things in an evidence-based type of way over at the Gorilla Underground. Um, so I will produce that and, and put it out, uh, gorillaunderground.podbean.com. Gorilla Underground on Apple Podcasts, um, and on Podbean, and I'll put it up on YouTube, uh, also on the Gorilla Underground YouTube channel if you, uh, so choose to listen. Um, stay up everybody. I understand that, um, it's, it's, it's not easy to, to hear things that, that are diametrically opposed to what you believe. Um, somebody in the chat says I can't handle challenges to my beliefs. Um, I believed probably not what you believe, but I believed some crazy shit, and I was challenged and it all fell apart.

1:01:34 Okay, what do you want me to tell you? You know, um, so there is that. I was challenged and, and they presented me with evidence, not speculation, not I think, oh, this is suspicious. It's like evidence, and, and it all fell apart. Like, oh, oh yeah, that was a bunch of shit, wasn't it? Right? And I got to deal with that every day. I had to deal with that every day. I got to think about how much shit I consumed for 10 to 15 years of my life. It's not fun. Join me. Misery loves company. Not that I'm miserable at all, but join me in, in the voyage, in, in, in the voyage outside, out of the rabbit hole. Goodbye. Goodbye rabbit hole. Let's do it together. You don't want to stay there. You want to get out. Unless you do want to stay there, in which case, happy hunting. My name is Billy Ray Valentine. We're getting up out of here. All right, everybody take it easy. God bless you from Controlled Op World. Bye-bye. Boom. We're still on the air.

1:02:36 We're still on the air.